Endorsements backwards?

Anon La Ply

Renegade
That's the way of the world. The richer you are, the more likely it is that you'll be given things for free. I suspect that financial size has its own kind of gravity that attracts money.
 

porter

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

I don't see how endorsements can be described as, "slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress." That is, unless you are referring to the derogatory use of the word, in which case the title of this thread is very offensive...
Exactly what I was going to point out, in addition to his myriad misunderstanding of business endorsements... negatively mentioning the plight of the mentally challenged is NOT cool in my book.
 

Aeolian

Platinum Member
Back when I was playing guitar a bit more actively, I knew another guitarist who supported himself as a rep for a locally based string company. He offered to set me up as an endorser. I guess he felt that he could justify my limited local reputation as worth a couple packs of strings a month just to tell folks I used their stuff. Nothing like getting a cymbal much less a guitar or drum kit. I begged off as I didn't think I was high profile enough to be worth it, and for the amount of playing I was doing, I could buy another brand of strings that lasted longer and get by just fine on my own. A year or so later I hooked up with a more active corporate band and was out in larger venues (and going though strings faster) but he wasn't doing that anymore so I missed my chance. Some new rep might have pulled the plug on it anyway.

Sometimes these low level endorsements are more a result of networking. I have some friends at the mid level who have artist consideration (meaning something around dealer cost) deals with some companies. They knew people who knew people who set them up. Or they had a tour with someone of sufficient notoriety that they met some reps and were able to wrangle some kinds of deals. I know other folks with national airplay, touring halls around the country who have to buy their own heads and sticks at street prices, never mind getting them free. Sometimes a local independent store will get behind an up and comer. There are many levels to the endorsement game. One is being so big they're chasing after you. The other is the same as getting gigs, getting signed, getting better gigs, and the whole rest of the music business. You have to cover all the bases. Be able to play, be professional, and be aggressive. Best of luck.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
But what of SoulTone? You can be an endorser over there ;)

Sorry for throwing gas on the barbecue.....
 

porter

Platinum Member
But what of SoulTone? You can be an endorser over there ;)

Sorry for throwing gas on the barbecue.....
I'm sure SJC will be happy to support these rising stars!! As well as XCEL Drumsticks, and Yungin$$ double-bass pedals, and Kool~Dawg speed metal cymbal toppers, and rippinTitez drum pants...
 

BickDutt

Junior Member
Two things one should strive not to do: buy new, and not be able to coax good sounds out of the crappiest piece of gear available.
 

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

why when I walk into Ruth's Chris steak house I pay full price ?
Why indeed? Those steaks are one of the most amazing things a man can eat and I say that as a general vegetarian who normally has no issue avoiding meat. Take me to a RC, though, and you bet your ass I'm ordering a filet that's served on a 500 degree plate in the middle of sizzling F***ing butter!
 

Anduin

Pioneer Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

I don't why people are beating up on the OP. He is far from the first person to think this.
Quite. Give the guy a break. It’s a legitimate topic for discussion.

...the richer you are, the more "free" stuff you get...
Word. Or whatever the current term for "I agree" is.

This is just pure pig-headed pouting and sour grapes. ... Turn around, get good, get better, get great, make it ....and then you can do whatever you want,
Ah yes, the American Dream. How’s that working out for everybody these days?

**

This type of situation has nothing to do with music or drumming in any way. It’s just regular free-market business. A large number of people see it as wildly unfair when big companies with lots of money get discounts on things, while individuals with very limited resources have to pay full pop for the same thing. That applies to basically everything these days. Do you think a big company buying new personal computers pays what you or I would if we walked into a retail shop? No way!

The rich people/companies get stuff cheap, and the poor people get hosed. Welcome to capitalism.
 

BacteriumFendYoke

Platinum Member
There's a Mark Twain short story called 'The Million Pound Bank Note' that sums a lot of this up perfectly - at least in terms of what Anduin said.

The basic premise is that two eccentric millionaire brothers stage a bet whereby they give a man with no money a million Pound bank note. If the man has to pay for anything after being given the note, one of the brothers loses the bet. Quite literally everything. He gets by purely on the basis that he obviously has money and this bank note is evidence of that.

It was made into an interesting film that is (occasionally) shown on British TV, although not for a while: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046072/
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

Do you think a big company buying new personal computers pays what you or I would if we walked into a retail shop? No way!
Big companies often have "contract" pricing for buying exclusively, and usually in bulk, from a vendor. They also have recurring annual service contracts that help make up any supposed losses the seller takes, so in reality, a big company isn't getting off so cheap.

And corporate rates don't always work in their favor. Ever rent a car or a hotel room or book a flight at the corporate rate? It's a price gouge fest! Big companies sometimes get taken advantage of more than they get special discounts.

But in that world, there are a limited number of airlines, rental car companies, and hotel chains. Corporations are captive audiences. For endorsers, there are countless options for product and many players make little differentiation between brands and think nothing of jumping ship. So, companies have to treat the artists a little nicer if they want a successful marketing campaign.

Bermuda
 

Les Ismore

Platinum Member
I say it's fine for those guys to have their names and photos on websites. But Travis Barker has used Zildjian for years - the guy's loaded. He could have any cymbal he wanted. Why doesn't he PURCHASE them, instead of receiving them for free. What's the point in a famous drummer with tons of cash getting a free product?

Does the kings son pay a tax?

Barker wasn't born into the ZILDJIAN family, he started from nothing, he, or someone he knew had to buy his gear, he/they bought cymbals/gear at the prices you buy it at. He may have bought a little, or a lot, who knows.

Barker can have any cymbal he wants b/c he can afford it 'now' that's true, but by being true it also adds weight to the endorsement, he (and others) don't need free/discounted stuff from ZILDJIAN/whoever, he chooses to accept/play it, it does add credence to the endorsement deal.

It is frustrating drum gear is so g'dam expensive, we all go through it, one drumhead being $50-60 etc. We all feel the pain, but there's not one drummer who's paying their own way to get to a certain level that's going to turn down free gear when its offered, especially if its gear we like.

If barker thought ZILDJIAN'S were crap, he wouldn't play them. He endorses them and yes, it is like a form of payment, a little freebie.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

The rich people/companies get stuff cheap, and the poor people get hosed.
That's a bit skewed. If a rich drummer whips out a bunch of $100 bills for a $1000 snare, and a poor drummer has to save for 6 months to buy the same drum for $1000, how does he get hosed? As a percentage of each drummer's wealth, there's a difference, but nobody got hosed, or received special treatment.

Do you think that because I'm considered a high-profile drummer, I get a different deal in music stores? Well, sometimes I do, but it's because I'm a regular customer, and the discount is a small thank you for my continued business. It's not "let's be nice to Bermuda", it's more like "let's keep this guy who spends money coming back!"

Yep, they can spot me a mile away.

Bermuda
 

Anduin

Pioneer Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

Ever rent a car or a hotel room or book a flight at the corporate rate? It's a price gouge fest!
Hmmm. Extensive experience, personal and otherwise, seems to indicate the exact opposite.
 

Les Ismore

Platinum Member
Wal mart employees get a discount, airline employees get a discount, you probably get something for free, or discounted where you work, weather its free paper clips out of the trash, or use of a car.
 

Anduin

Pioneer Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

...in music stores...It's not "let's be nice to Bermuda", it's more like "let's keep this guy who spends money coming back!"
Exactly. Thank you for illustrating my point. They know you’ve got money, so they treat you differently, and maybe give you a better deal. As you imply, it’s all about the money. Nothing to do with music or drumming.
 

Otto

Platinum Member
What do you mean by that?
The 2 parties engading in the deal have resources.

People without resources are S.O.L.

Hence entitlement programs.(at least, where they are not actually benifiting those that "have" via politial manipulation)
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
If barker thought ZILDJIAN'S were crap, he wouldn't play them. He endorses them and yes, it is like a form of payment, a little freebie.
It is exactly a form of payment, and in legalese it's called consideration for use of the artist's name and likeness used to market the brand.

Here's the thing, once you get to a certain point in your career, you have to understand that your name carries some value... some caché if you will. It may be as simple as a band featuring your name so they can benefit from the association, or on the top end, receiving product for the use of it. If your name carries some weight, don't just give it away.

Bermuda
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

Exactly. Thank you for illustrating my point. They know you’ve got money, so they treat you differently, and maybe give you a better deal. As you imply, it’s all about the money. Nothing to do with music or drumming.
I get discounts based on volume (repeat business.) I don't expect a store to do anything because I'm a drummer or chose the arts as a career. It's not their responsibility to support the arts or artists.
 

Anduin

Pioneer Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

I get discounts based on volume (repeat business.) I don't expect a store to do anything because I'm a drummer or chose the arts as a career. It's not their responsibility to support the arts or artists.
Not their responsibility, it’s true, but it’s absolutely in the interests of retail music shops to support both arts and artists. (If the art fades, so does their business.)

Same goes for the manufacturers. I mean, that’s why endorsement deals exist, right?
 
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