Endorsements backwards?

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

But then again, I'm not the one who spends months and months away from home, I get to see my wife and kids every night.
Exactly Ian. There's always a price to pay, & the heaviest price is always the one without monetary value attached.
 

topgun2021

Gold Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

I am not sure if Cymbal endorsers get this as much as guitar player seems to, but what about mandatory convention/other appearances?

I guess if the artist had to pay his own way to appear sometimes, that could balance the artist's money out for getting free stuff.

My brother is under contract with Titleist. He receives his own set for free, new balls every 3 or so months and a bag. Everything else he gets a discount on.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

I am not sure if Cymbal endorsers get this as much as guitar player seems to, but what about mandatory convention/other appearances?
It depends on the company, the type of event/appearance, and to a certain extent, the artist in question.

Would Zildjian love to have Ringo come to NAMM? You bet! Do they expect him to? Of course not. Do they hold that against him? Of course not.

None of it is mandatory, but it's smart for the artist to make some effort. When Joey Kramer came back to Ludwig, he showed up for the autograph session at NAMM, also taking the opportunity to hawk his new book. It's unlikely he'll do another appearance for like that for Ludwig, and that's fine. Ludwig made the necessary splash, and once was enough.

Some artists are clinicians/educators, and there is often an agreement as to the number of clinics that the company will sponsor, contingent upon the artist's schedule (if he's in a band) and the dealers' ability to accommodate the artist. They will typically involve other endorsed companies to help share the cost.

But in general, an artist who's sincere about the product, passionate about their art, and doesn't absolutely hate people, is happy to do what the company asks, which is really not much.

Bermuda
 

opentune

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

This is just pure pig-headed pouting and sour grapes. If it bothers you, turn the negative energy into positive. Turn around, get good, get better, get great, make it ....and then you can do whatever you want, including upholding your own philosophy, by turning away any future endorsements.

And yes the title of the thread is derogatory.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, too many negatives on the title, I've amended it to mean the same thing.
 

Otto

Platinum Member
Business deals dont tend to benifit those who need it.

...hence the US and most other first world nations have public entitlement programs.

Unfortunatly..(or fortunatly?)...music equipment is not considered a basic need.
 

the_dude

Senior Member
Endorsements backwards?
That's easy.
stnemesrodnE
How 'bout something a little more challenging?
 

NerfLad

Silver Member
Otto said:
"Business deals don't tend to benefit those who need [to benefit]"
What do you mean by that? If two people engage in a business deal, they trade things they already have in exchange for things they'd rather have, that they feel are more valuable. Both parties benefit/everyone wins. Each individual decides for themselves whether or not they are benefiting.


Apply this to the OP:

In the case of endorsements, Zildjian trades Travis Barker cymbals, sticks, and a lot of marketing consideration for his promotion of their products. In the opinion of the Zildjian team, simply having Travis's promotion benefits them more than they could benefit from selling the gear they are giving him and vice versa... Travis gets free stuff!

That's why only "successful" drummers who are (usually) better paid than kids or beginners get free stuff, even though they can afford it. They pay for the gear with their recommendation. If you're a kid starting out, your recommendation doesn't mean much. If you're the drummer for XYZ-Mega-Super Band or you're a monster player, your recommendation carries more weight because your status is elevated above average.
 
A

audiotech

Guest
Yeah, too many negatives on the title, I've amended it to mean the same thing.
It seems to me that retarded and backwards have two completely different definitions. The first can correlate with tempo or that of slowing down, the second, well not so much. I'll leave the proper synonym to the language majors on this channel.

Dennis
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
The "endorsement backwards" title refers directly to the OPs suggestion that the endorsement process logic is somehow reversed. Hence my use of the word 'backwards'.

Any chance we can stay on topic here?
 

New Tricks

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

The "endorsers" are basically employees of the company they endorse. .
Not employees.

They simply have contracts with the companies that spell out their responsibilities and their compensation. The gear is simply part (perhaps all) of that compensation.
 
Last edited:

tamadrm

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

I don't see how endorsements can be described as, "slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress." That is, unless you are referring to the derogatory use of the word, in which case the title of this thread is very offensive...
+100.Thanks Caddy.As someone who works with the mentally retarded,I'm pretty offended by the OP's ,and his use of it as another term for stupid.

O.P. you may think that using that word is cool and hip,but it's far from it.;((

Steve B
 

slowrocker

Silver Member
The "endorsement backwards" title refers directly to the OPs suggestion that the endorsement process logic is somehow reversed. Hence my use of the word 'backwards'.

Any chance we can stay on topic here?
Except backwards is not a word- backward however is.

Which is more beneficial to the company? If you wanted people endorsing you would you go with a no-name or a well know drummer? You want recognition and increased revenue. They are not trying to do good for the community by giving free or discounted gear. Yes those drummers can afford it, but if you had one company offering you whatever free cymbals or whatever you need, would you not do that over just buying something? Most people with money are at least somewhat conscientious of how they spend.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I think when people think "big time endorsement" they're looking at it the wrong way. It's not that the artist is getting things for free, it's that he's supported when he goes out to do something. I think we all assume that pro drummers are driving around in their own vehicles with their own equipment happily going from gig-to-gig, and I've not found this to be true for the big names.

Last year when I got a chance to speak with a rep from Sonor, he told me about what a stress it was to get Gavin Harrison a kit to play when he went on David Letterman, after FedEx lost the first kit that was sent out. So Gavin is just flying in from wherever he is to do his bit on the show, but it's up to the supporting company to get Gavin what he needs to play. Likewise, when the Police were on their world tour, I doubt Stewart's drums were traveling around with him. They lived with the rest of the gear and were taken care of by his own people, with support from Tama to make sure his instrument is in good working order. That's the true value of the endorsement, I think. To be supported while you're out performing, and drums definitely need it.

I know people who have a discounted rate for stuff, but I've noticed that endorsement deals are proportional to how big you are, and that's fair. I don't expect gear for the level of visibility I have, and the one big gig I have nobody even knows its me playing, and we have a deal with Yamaha!

I'm thankful to be playing at all in any capacity and I just buy what I want.
 

BacteriumFendYoke

Platinum Member
As Bo says, the logistical support is the often one of the main reasons that big-name artists sign deals with companies. It would be great if I turned up at every gig with a kit there, ready-to-play and I only play (relatively) locally. Going on international tours is very difficult logistically and it doesn't make sense to ship a kit from location-to-location if a different kit can simply be taken from local stock and returned after the gig. It's not uncommon for shops to have kits for sale at a slight discount after they've been used by an artist during a tour.

There are other reasons artists sign deals but 'free gear' isn't a big incentive. The vast majority of artists with deals don't get given equipment for free but instead buy the gear directly from the company with a discount. For big-name artists, companies may offer to produce gear with a level of customisation (for instance, the Zildjian A Custom series was designed in conjunction with Dave Weckl) and having a 'signature' series often makes sense for manufacturers commercially.

Liking the gear in the first place is a given, though.

EDIT: What NerfLad said.
 
Last edited:

BacteriumFendYoke

Platinum Member
I liked your post, but it was Vinnie who designed the A Customs around 91/92. Dave's signature cymbals are the HHX Legacy and Evolution lines
Curses. You're absolutely right of course. I somehow managed to get them reversed in my head. Dave certainly played the A Customs for a while but it was Vinnie that was consulted on their design.

Vinnie's also had a lot to do with the latest Paiste B20 offerings.
 

NerfLad

Silver Member
Curses. You're absolutely right of course. I somehow managed to get them reversed in my head. Dave certainly played the A Customs for a while but it was Vinnie that was consulted on their design.

Vinnie's also had a lot to do with the latest Paiste B20 offerings.
I wonder if he got them for free ;)
 

BacteriumFendYoke

Platinum Member
I wonder if he got them for free ;)
No idea why butthat just tickled me. Brilliant.

I'm not sure why we get these endorsement questions so often. I seem to remember a few other members not quite understanding the point of these deals...

If anyone wants to mix me up with Vinnie, I'll take his cymbals. Thankyouplease.
 

Midnite Zephyr

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

You're all really missing the point I'm making.

An endorsing artist (Barker, Lang, Mayer, tons of others) are good advertisement. I get this. So of course, I say it's fine for those guys to have their names and photos on websites. But Travis Barker has used Zildjian for years - the guy's loaded. He could have any cymbal he wanted. Why doesn't he PURCHASE them, instead of receiving them for free. What's the point in a famous drummer with tons of cash getting a free product?

Work with them - if they break a cymbal, replace it, etc. But giving them as many cymbals as they want, no questions asked? I understand it isn't this way with all companies, or all levels of endorsement even. But

It's called doing business. There is a business model (obviously) instrument/gear companies adhere to which is a time-tested and proven method. Who's doing who a favor?

Travis Barker probably has all that cash in his pocket because he doesn't have to buy any cymbals or drums.
 
Top