Endorsements backwards?

toddmc

Gold Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

This thread could be applied to all walks of life, ie the richer you are, the more "free" stuff you get (although as everyone's pointed out- technically it's not free).
 

caddywumpus

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

I don't see how endorsements can be described as, "slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress." That is, unless you are referring to the derogatory use of the word, in which case the title of this thread is very offensive...
 

Florian

Gold Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

I understand where you're all coming from, but I just see it from a different perspective. If I were famous, and loaded, I wouldn't want to receive 'free' products. I'd want to support a business I was so close to, even if I was already advertising for them - I think of it like downloading music illegally. You love a band, your favorite band. You don't want to illegally download their music, you buy the CD, or you pay for a download, right? So if you really loved a cymbal, stick, or drum company, why would you accept free products, when you'd be using the product anyway?

Maybe I am looking at it the wrong way... But that's just the way I've always felt about it.
still missing it....
Lemme tell you my story....

I worked (now retired) in the American Hockey League as an on ice official. It took many years and tons of hard work to get to that level. Prior to getting to that level I had purchased EVERYTHING I needed to get there, skates, jersey, pads, etc. I literally spent thousands of dollars to get there. When you reach a certain "level" people recognize your worth and offer you things that you need - for me it was skates/protective gear and outerwear - all for free. I gladly accepted the freebies, why? Cause I had spent thousands to get there and my time and effort to get to that level was my "dues" to receive that stuff. Same thing with drummers - they bust their balls to get where they are and deserve the endorsements they receive. Could I have paid for my gear, probably, but it isnt even discussed...just fill out the form with your sizes and boom, a week later a nice box arrives at your door with the goodies. So what did the companies get in return???? When my games were televised, their logo stood out prominently on all my gear. They were getting PR from me...I had no issue with that, its a two way street...I got free stuff, they got free promotion, I was, in essence, a skating billboard.

Work hard enough and you too can get that box of goodies for nothing.



F
 

alparrott

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

I don't see how endorsements can be described as, "slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress." That is, unless you are referring to the derogatory use of the word, in which case the title of this thread is very offensive...
Exactly. Which certainly didn't make me a receptive audience from the get-go.
 

New Tricks

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

If we weren't so stupid, we wouldn't purchase things because a celebrity told us to. I learned that all by myself by the time I was in my teenage years.

I shake my head and laugh every time I read someone going on about what kind of gear the latest famous drummer uses but someone must be buying into the program.

Generally, people will pimp out anything they get paid for. It's sad sometimes but it's a reality of the capitalist system.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

Generally, people will pimp out anything they get paid for. It's sad sometimes but it's a reality of the capitalist system.
That's another aspect of endorsements, deciding who's got cred and who's just a shill. I think everyone here can probably think of musicians who have integrity about what they use, as well as those who hop around from company to company and whose endorsements are essentially meaningless.

I hope everyone knows me well enough by now to know (buy Ludwig) that I'm not a shill (Sabian is best) and that I don't go around mentioning my endorsements (Evans) unless it comes up in conversation (Vic Firth) or is otherwise pertinent to the topic of a thread (Taye RhythmTech Impact!)

Bermuda
Kelly Shu
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

I hope everyone knows me well enough by now to know (buy Ludwig) that I'm not a shill (Sabian is best) and that I don't go around mentioning my endorsements (Evans) unless it comes up in conversation (Vic Firth) or is otherwise pertinent to the topic of a thread (Taye RhythmTech Impact!)
No "arse" kicker? No Britestuff? No Rimriser?

What kind of shill are you??
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

I guess I'm not a very good shill...

I rest my case!
 

Aeolian

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

The "endorsers" are basically employees of the company they endorse. Part of that companies marketing department. It's part of their overall career as a musician. When your endorsement goes from getting stuff at dealer cost to getting it at a reduction from dealer cost to the rarefied level of highly paid marketing people who get it for free, it is because their value and attendant "salaries" have kept pace. Sell more product, get more salary. Do an indie tour with a shoe gazer band and you're of marginal value to the company at best. Back up Beyonce at the Super Bowl, and you're a wanted drummer. Think about what a 30 second ad on the Super Bowl costs. Now think about what 10 minutes of Yamaha keyboard and Zildjian cymbal logos flashing on the screen is worth. Companies court those players who can give them the advertising value. Yeah, the big names could buy whatever they wanted (and as I pointed out in another thread sometimes do and switch labels). Many recordings are made with gear entirely different than what the person endorses because they want a particular sound. But in public, it's going to have their companies label on it because they have a deal of mutual value with the company. Their being seen playing the companies stuff at shows and pimping it at clinics is directly proportional in value to how much interest they generate. Just like a well crafted TV add. And they are compensated proportionally. Free stuff is just a part of the compensation.

I guess I'm saying the same thing over and over again. Unless you have been though the whole spectrum of something, you are only guessing (with a very limited perspective) at what is going on with the rest of it. There are the things you know you know, like you know your name. There are things you know you don't know, like you don't know my son's name. And there are things you didn't realize that you knew. These make of 1/4 of knowledge. The other 3/4 are things you don't know that you don't know.
 

Jeff Almeyda

Senior Consultant
Re: Endorsements retarded?

I don't see how endorsements can be described as, "slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress." That is, unless you are referring to the derogatory use of the word, in which case the title of this thread is very offensive...
Yes, honestly, when your thread is titled something like that, you immediately lose all credibility with me. You are not speaking to your buddies in your bedroom. You are speaking to people from all age groups from all over the world.

It makes you, well... sound retarded.
 

dmacc_2

Well-known member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

Perhaps I'm pigheaded but I wasn't aware anyone really cared about endorsements (regardless of product) other than the Endorsee, Endorser and the 8-17 year old kid looking at the advertisement.

To me (at just about 47 years old), it really doesn't matter who's playing what..
 
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Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

Did it ever occur to anyone, that these guys getting free rides are the reason cymbals and other equipment are so un-godly expensive?
Did it occur to you, that the increase in production volume aligned to increase in sales from marketing activities is one reason why gear prices are cheaper?

Additionally, in real terms, drums (like for like quality) are cheaper now than at any time over the last 60 years.
 

gmrakich

Gold Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

Dear Earth Drummer. No one care who you are and what you play. When tens of thousands do, you might get a deal. Should Porsche give big discounts on their cars because you are a good driver? At this point you bring nothing to the table, and that is what you get....nothing.
 

PeteN

Silver Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

Nothing is Free! It's all an illusion, anyone who receives free gear has to please the manufacturer in some marketing way is how I see it.

I offer nothing so I get my gear with cash lol.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

Perhaps I'm pigheaded but I wasn't aware anyone really cared about endorsements (regardless of product) other than the Endorsee, Endorser and the 8-17 year old kid looking at the advertisement.
It's a fairly hot topic, and comes up regularly here, in other forums, and in real life. And while younger consumers are an important target for marketing because they are more easily influenced, there are plenty of celebrity endorsements of products that are clearly aimed at adults and seniors. Even in the music world, certain products and companies are marketed with a more mature approach for the mature buyer.

Adults aren't really expected to run out and buy something just because one of their contemporaries hawks it, or there's a cogent ad in a magazine or on TV. But it does create interest in exploring the product, and that's a start.

In the case of drum gear, I'm definitely motivated to check out a piece of gear used by someone I respect. I don't automatically buy it, but I do explore and see if it's for me.

Bermuda
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

Why are they giving him, and guys of similar fame, free cymbals? And it isn't just cymbal companies. Drums, sticks, whatever. They all do this.
No, they don't all do this. There are plenty of companies that charge every endorser for their product, and some companies don't do endorsements at all.

Did it ever occur to anyone, that these guys getting free rides are the reason cymbals and other equipment are so un-godly expensive?
You must first understand that only a small number of a company's artists are comped their gear. I'll stick my neck out and say 10%, but I know it's less with most of the companies I endorse (and I guarantee it's less than 1% with DW.) That's a small percentage of just signed artists, which is a TINY percentage of a company's customers. Minuscule, microscopic, and meaningless to the bottom line, or the resulting price on the street. In fact, your local dealer has more of an effect on the price you pay than a handful of name drummers getting free cymbals, sticks, heads, accessories, etc.

Your $500 Meinl would be maybe $497 if they had no A-level artists. If your dealer won't cut you a $3 discount, I'd say that's a bigger problem than resenting an industry that finds value in certain artists whose level of exposure helps market their product.

Bermuda
 

bigiainw

Gold Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

I understand where you're all coming from, but I just see it from a different perspective. If I were famous, and loaded, I wouldn't want to receive 'free' products. I'd want to support a business I was so close to, even if I was already advertising for them - I think of it like downloading music illegally. You love a band, your favorite band. You don't want to illegally download their music, you buy the CD, or you pay for a download, right? So if you really loved a cymbal, stick, or drum company, why would you accept free products, when you'd be using the product anyway?

Maybe I am looking at it the wrong way... But that's just the way I've always felt about it.
Are you just a bit pissed off that it's not you getting the endorsement? Time to man up and grow up and accept that life is not like that and simply buy what you can afford, or save up your money until you can afford what you desire.I have a family, a mortgage, a car and a dog to support and can still afford to buy gear from time to time. I'm not famous, so I don't get it for nothing and I'm fine with that. I earned everything I have, and that is satisfying enough for me.

That's how the world works!
 

Florian

Gold Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

That's another aspect of endorsements, deciding who's got cred and who's just a shill. I think everyone here can probably think of musicians who have integrity about what they use, as well as those who hop around from company to company and whose endorsements are essentially meaningless.

I hope everyone knows me well enough by now to know (buy Ludwig) that I'm not a shill (Sabian is best) and that I don't go around mentioning my endorsements (Evans) unless it comes up in conversation (Vic Firth) or is otherwise pertinent to the topic of a thread (Taye RhythmTech Impact!)

Bermuda
Kelly Shu

funniest thing Ive read in a long time....well done, Bermuda!

F
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

I don't why people are beating up on the OP. He is far from the first person to think this.

I know when i was much younger, I was was thinking about how expensive it was to get a new cymbals, and looking up at my wall of Zildjian posters and thinking, man, if all these guys weren't getting free cymbals, how much less would mine cost?

In particular when you hear about some guys who have stacks and stacks of cymbals, or you see guys selling off their drum set that they didn't pay for because they got a new one.

But I've inquired about this with industry insiders, and the answer I get is the cost of giving away the free gear is an extremely small percentage of the whole sale cost of a product, and even if nothing was given away for free, the reduction in prices we pay would barely be noticeable.

The other aspect is not every endorser is getting what ever they want for free. Many simply pay wholesale, which means the manufacture is not selling products for any less than than they sell it to the store, so there is no added cost to pass on the the end consumer.
Of the people who do get things for free, they have limits on how many cymbals/drums they get.

The company A/R reps have budgets they have to to stick to in determine how much total product they can give to the total artists on their roster. I've even witnessed an artist who was already an in place endorser buying drinks for their A/R guy and them sweet talking said A/R guy to replace a broken cymbal because the A/R guy didn't originally have it in their budget.

So I get the OP's point, but after being in and around the industry, it's not quite the expense it seems.

Although it is frustrating at times seeing guys I know getting this or that for free/whole sale, knowing i still have to pay market price. But then again, I'm not the one who spends months and months away from home, I get to see my wife and kids every night.
 
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