Endorsements backwards?

EarthRocker

Senior Member
Please... No negative, pig-headed responses. This is simply me venting, and I've been dying to let it out for a while. But honestly, piss on the big three cymbal company's Artist Relations. The whole criteria of a drummer endorsing a product is so redundant, and I have a list a mile long as to why, but I'll only touch on the big ones...

Drum equipment price - anything worth buying is something out of arm's reach of a poor person. No matter how interested you are in drums, if you have a family, saving money for drum equipment is a failed effort. If you're bottom class, or even lower middle class, and you have a family, there's always gonna' be something you NEED to spend that cash on, as appose to drums.

Famous dudes - drummers like Travis Barker (just to name a FAMOUS drummer) gets his Zildjian stuff for free, like many other drummer celebs. Why? Barker has the cash to buy STOCK in Zildjian if he wants. Why are they giving him, and guys of similar fame, free cymbals? And it isn't just cymbal companies. Drums, sticks, whatever. They all do this.

More Price BS - Look how many famous drummers get free, or even highly discounted stuff. Did it ever occur to anyone, that these guys getting free rides are the reason cymbals and other equipment are so un-godly expensive? You have to pay five-hundred dollars for a Meinl Byzance cymbal, because twenty drummers get them for free, and probably want a new one every time it gets a stick mark. (figuratively speaking of course.)

So to gather everything together, I have to ask myself what companies are thinking... Why don't new and upcoming drummers, willing to be loyal to a product, get the discounts and the free stuff, and then the dudes who have an infinite supply of cash, have to pay?

I'm not saying EVERYONE should get free stuff. I'm just saying that there are a lot of drummers in my position, who have to settle for sub-standard equipment. And I speak for broke drummers everywhere when I say, if one company would give me free, or even a great discount on products, when I got famous, I would not only pay FULL PRICE to the company that helped me, but I would also remain loyal to this company until they done something to trash a good professional relationship.

So my point is, if any drum company reps. read this... STOP GIVING FAMOUS DRUMMERS FREE / DISCOUNTED CRAP.. Cut the new guys a break, and when they become somebody, I'm sure they'll give you all the business you could handle... And I think if companies took this approach, prices on equipment would go down, also.
 

EarthRocker

Senior Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

You've completely missed the point of endorsement deals mate.
I fully understand the point of an endorsement. It's a partnership in which both a performer and the company benefit. But I fail to see how a company benefits from a rich gent getting free cymbals, where everyone else has to cut off their arm and sell it. I understand that you endorse a company that you swear by, for example, I'm pretty fond of Sabian's cymbals. If I was loaded, I would have no problem paying full price, or maybe even donating to the company. But because I'm not on television, or being played on the radio, I have to pay full price. I get exposure, and I'm a loyal customer. Why don't I get a discount, and Jojo Mayer have to pay for his things?
 

slowrocker

Silver Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

I fully understand the point of an endorsement. It's a partnership in which both a performer and the company benefit. But I fail to see how a company benefits from a rich gent getting free cymbals, where everyone else has to cut off their arm and sell it. I understand that you endorse a company that you swear by, for example, I'm pretty fond of Sabian's cymbals. If I was loaded, I would have no problem paying full price, or maybe even donating to the company. But because I'm not on television, or being played on the radio, I have to pay full price. I get exposure, and I'm a loyal customer. Why don't I get a discount, and Jojo Mayer have to pay for his things?
For one thing, the companies are not just giving free or discounted gear to a drummer, they are getting business by a drummer endorsing them. They are not going to do that with every drummer that is hoping to get big one day. They are getting advertised every time that drummer goes on tour. Thousands of people could potentially notice and they likely get more than their money back. It isn't playing favorites, or being partial to drummers with more money, but they are getting endorsed and hoping it brings recognition and more business for them.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

No different to advertising. Why do some companies spend millions on it? Because it works.....they recoup the money spent tenfold.
Endorsement deals are proven to shift product....just like advertising does. It's less about "giving free stuff away to those who can already afford it" and more about having your product seen being played by high profile players. What better advertising or "endorsement" of your product is there than that? It's business. No more, no less.

Bermuda has an excellent FAQ regarding the topic. I suggest you have a read of it and the "why" becomes a lot clearer.
 

alparrott

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

I'm sorry, maybe this will come across a negative and pig-headed, but when I was young and fresh and convinced I would be a rock star in just a couple of years, I paid for my gear with summer jobs. It never occurred to me to kvetch about people who didn't have to pay for it. That wasn't even part of my thinking. One time, I bought a new ride cymbal for 300 dollars when I only made $550 a month. My excuse was that it was February, which is a short month.

There are many opportunities to pick up very nice gear for less than retail price, and often by looking around and being a smart shopper you can get pro gear for not much money. My two latest acquisitions are a set of K/Z hi-hats (normally about $350) for $100, and a 12" DW snare (about $400 new) for $100. Beyond that, there are frequently giveaways, promotions, sales, coupons, and other deals. You have to know where and when to look. Such deals and promotions are often posted here.

I have formed a great longterm relationship with the music store in my town, and in return I say great things about them and how they do business whenever I get a chance. In return, occasionally they take half off the price of a set of sticks or something like that. There we go, I'm an endorser.

An endorsement is not always "free stuff", and to insinuate that it is means you don't know the business well enough to complain. I'm fairly certain that at some point in their career, these pros who worked their arses off to be where they are today had to buy their gear, just like you and me. To say that you're POed because they "get free stuff" and you don't totally misses the point of why they are where they are.

It never would have occurred to me once in my entire life to begrudge someone for something they worked for, and look for a free handout without doing the same amount of work.

You mention the "up-and-comers". There are millions of them. Literally millions. How are we to determine who gets your free product and who doesn't? Drum companies are businesses, and they have to make some money to pay their employees, make overhead, etc. etc. They can't do that by handing their products out like candy. (And even candy isn't handed out like candy anymore.) If you are an up-and-comer, the odds are one in a million, then, that you will be someone worth them expending time and money on. You can improve those odds by doing something notable, like winning a drum-off or working yourself into a supporting side-stage appearance at a large festival concert. In other words, doing something for the return.

I'm sorry if I missed your point, but I'm pretty sure I missed your point.
 

Midnite Zephyr

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

Think of it this way, when you are poor or lower-middle class because Uncle Sammy took a big bite out of your hindside, you'll appreciate those cymbals that much more and the trouble it took to get them. I seriously want another good set of cymbals, but I can't just go out and buy them, and I can't charge them either because my charging days are over. Nope, I have to budget, buy used stuff, save up for one cymbal at a time, etc. It's slow coming, but completely worth it in the end.

I hear what you're saying though. I know when I started out playing, I bought stuff my favorite drummers played. It's as simple as that. There are a heck of a lot more wannabee drummers and so-so drummers and aspiring drummers than there are professional drummers. I've seen Gavin's new snare drum from Sonor and that whole video clip. You bet I'd like to get my hands on one of those. Or take a Guru Origin for instance, that kit sells itself. We all know that, but get Vinnie Colaiuta plugging one of those Cappucino sets and Guru might need to get a really big warehouse pretty soon.
 

Green_C

Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?



What do Cheerios have to do with cars?!!! NOTHING! But every time the car takes the track millions of people see "CHEERIOS". They may not buy a box just because they see "Cheerios" on a car. But repeated exposure is proven to influence people.

Likewise, everytime a famous drummer plays Zildjians every "ltittle guy" is influenced that they need Zildjians too. Eventually, they make that purchase and justify the expense of giving free gear to the famous drummer.

I hate to say it, but selling drumming gear is a business. If you can't afford the top of the line they offer options at lower price points. Or you always have the option of doing what I do in your situation and buy used.
 

konaboy

Pioneer Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

No different to advertising. Why do some companies spend millions on it? Because it works.....they recoup the money spent tenfold.
Endorsement deals are proven to shift product....just like advertising does. It's less about "giving free stuff away to those who can already afford it" and more about having your product seen being played by high profile players. What better advertising or "endorsement" of your product is there than that? It's business. No more, no less.

Bermuda has an excellent FAQ regarding the topic. I suggest you have a read of it and the "why" becomes a lot clearer.
X2 No different than any other endorsement out there including sports.

So you noticed Travis being an endorsed player, guess how many thousands of pairs of sticks,cymbals and drums have been sold because someone saw their favorite drummer Travis using them. Business 101 know how to reach your target audience.Spend millions on commercials or a thousand or less giving a high profile artist some cymbals. Yup I'd go with giving gear to high profile players too!
 

EarthRocker

Senior Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

You're all really missing the point I'm making.

An endorsing artist (Barker, Lang, Mayer, tons of others) are good advertisement. I get this. So of course, I say it's fine for those guys to have their names and photos on websites. But Travis Barker has used Zildjian for years - the guy's loaded. He could have any cymbal he wanted. Why doesn't he PURCHASE them, instead of receiving them for free. What's the point in a famous drummer with tons of cash getting a free product?

Work with them - if they break a cymbal, replace it, etc. But giving them as many cymbals as they want, no questions asked? I understand it isn't this way with all companies, or all levels of endorsement even. But
 
A

Anthony Amodeo

Guest
Re: Endorsements retarded?

why when I walk into Ruth's Chris steak house I pay full price ?

but when Eli Manning or Robert De Niro walk in their meals are comped???....they are loaded!!!!

(stomps away pouting )
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

You're all really missing the point I'm making.
No we get your point. But your point is being made from a position of not understanding the nature of an endorsement in the first place. I know you say you do, but what you're writing here tells us otherwise.

Get on board with the concept and you'll have answered your own question.
 

scooter540

Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

Endorsements are all about exposure. I endorse a number of companies. Do I get my equipment for free? No, because I'm not playing stadiums in front of tens of thousands of people. My endorsements reflect my level of exposure.

Cutting the new guys a break, as you referred to it as, isn't going to do anything for a company but cost them money. People are going to pay for high end gear regardless of the price point (just look at the prices of high end Paiste and DW products). Companies are basically paying professional drummers to advertise their equipment on their kits in front of thousands of people. It's really no different than any other advertising model.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

An endorsing artist (Barker, Lang, Mayer, tons of others) are good advertisement. I get this. So of course, I say it's fine for those guys to have their names and photos on websites. But Travis Barker has used Zildjian for years - the guy's loaded. He could have any cymbal he wanted. Why doesn't he PURCHASE them, instead of receiving them for free. What's the point in a famous drummer with tons of cash getting a free product?
Very simple - comped product is the consideration (payment) for the company using the artists name & likeness.

My FAQ referred to in another post is at www.bermudaschwartz.com/endorsement

Bermuda
 

EarthRocker

Senior Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

No we get your point. But your point is being made from a position of not understanding the nature of an endorsement in the first place. I know you say you do, but what you're writing here tells us otherwise.

Get on board with the concept and you'll have answered your own question.
I understand where you're all coming from, but I just see it from a different perspective. If I were famous, and loaded, I wouldn't want to receive 'free' products. I'd want to support a business I was so close to, even if I was already advertising for them - I think of it like downloading music illegally. You love a band, your favorite band. You don't want to illegally download their music, you buy the CD, or you pay for a download, right? So if you really loved a cymbal, stick, or drum company, why would you accept free products, when you'd be using the product anyway?

Maybe I am looking at it the wrong way... But that's just the way I've always felt about it.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

So if you really loved a cymbal, stick, or drum company, why would you accept free products, when you'd be using the product anyway?
Because there is more to the relationship than just receiving free product too. Promotion and ongoing support being but two others.

Have a read of the FAQ mate. It'll make far more sense once you've got your head around the fact that it is a relationship based on far more than "free gear."
 

scooter540

Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

Because there is more to the relationship than just receiving free product too. Promotion and ongoing support being but two others.

Have a read of the FAQ mate. It'll make far more sense once you've got your head around the fact that it is a relationship based on far more than "free gear."
Was about to mention just that. An endorsement is far more than a company just handing free gear to an artist. There's clinics, promotional events, signings, product development, etc...
 

harryconway

Platinum Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

Cut the new guys a break, and when they become somebody, I'm sure they'll give you all the business you could handle... And I think if companies took this approach, prices on equipment would go down, also.
No, companies would go out of business. For every 100 drummers, does even 1 make it big? No. For every 1000 ..... maybe 1 makes it big. So, by your logic, drum/cymbal/hardware companies should give away/discount product to the masses, with the hope that 1/1000 decide to return the favor, after they make it big.​
That's a seriously flawed business model.​
 
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Drivelikebrazil

Junior Member
Re: Endorsements retarded?

The endorsing drummer isn't really getting anything 'for free'. The endorsing drummer is basically working for the company as an advertiser and part of their pay is gear. Saying that they get 'free gear' would be like me saying "My employer gives me free paid time off in addition to my paycheck".
 
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