Effects Of Sound/Feel using 2ply snare batter Hd ?

tfgretsch

Junior Member
I use Remo Controlled Sound coated white dot heads on all of my Gretsch snares (a COB Brooklyn, a NOB Brooklyn and a Gold Series Limited Edition Maple), and they sound fantastic. The white dots are thinner than their black dots, and it makes a difference. When I've used black dots in the past, the thicker dot promoted a ton of midrange and less of a sharp attack. I didn't like that. But the white dot heads retain nearly all of the crispness of a coated Ambassador, but dialed down a notch so it's less ringy and a tad punchier. And without all the midrange of the black dot heads. For some reason, no stores stock these, so I always have to buy them online. But they're by far my favorite snare batter.
Interesting ,are the white dots on top or underside of the batter cs hd? Thanks,PS i tried an Aquarian TC 14 ,single ply coated hd for the first time on my14x6.5 Gretschusa maple snare and it has a great feel &sound ! Thanks for your help
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
Other than durability, how would 2ply batter hd effect sound & feel on snare . Overtones ? ,Sensitivity ?,Crack ? ,Thanks
Generally a dooshier, thuddier sound-- wider attack, more lows. Response a little mushy, sound and response not as bright/crisp/clean as a single ply, not as sensitive to soft dynamics. Two ply might be easier to tune, might be a more appealing sound if overtones bother you.
 

TK-421

Senior Member
Interesting ,are the white dots on top or underside of the batter cs hd? Thanks,PS i tried an Aquarian TC 14 ,single ply coated hd for the first time on my14x6.5 Gretschusa maple snare and it has a great feel &sound ! Thanks for your help
The white dots are on the underside. The one you're thinking of that's on the batter side is the CS coated clear dot. For that one, the clear dot is coated along with the rest of the head, and you can feel the ridge of the dot when playing with brushes. Since the clear dot is the thinnest of the three dots, that head tends to sound pretty similar to coated Ambassadors.

But the CS coated white dots are noticeably different and are definitely my favorites. When buying online, I usually search the product code (for the 14" version): CS-0114-00.

Here's how it looks on a snare.
REMO-CONTROLLED-SOUND-COATED-WHITE-REVERSE-DOT-DRUM-HEAD-DRUMAZON_02_grande.jpg
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
When I've used black dots in the past, the thicker dot promoted a ton of midrange and less of a sharp attack. I didn't like that.
I'm with you on this one. I put a black dot on my snare many years ago and was thoroughly disappointed. Even at a relatively high tension, it seemed mushy and dull. It very much deadened the sharpness I seek in a snare drum. In my world of frequency preferences, midrange and low-end tones are for toms, not for snares.
 

Ruok

Silver Member
Generally a dooshier, thuddier sound-- wider attack, more lows. Response a little mushy, sound and response not as bright/crisp/clean as a single ply, not as sensitive to soft dynamics. Two ply might be easier to tune, might be a more appealing sound if overtones bother you.
Well said.

Though some may hear it differently than me, I also think that Remo heads tend to be livelier than other brands, though I've only used Remo and Evans on snares. The Remo Emperors, though 2 ply, have worked really well for me on snares, when I want a thicker and deeper sound. They still have some upper overtones in them. Evans 2 Ply heads seem too dead for me. I have seen some demos on YT that surprised me how high some guys can crank up a 2 ply head. I usually don't do that with a 2 ply on a snare because I'm looking for a deeper sound. Though I once owned a kit that I put coated Emperors on the toms and cranked them up and they sounded fantastic, but we're talking snares here.
 

Ruok

Silver Member
I'm with you on this one. I put a black dot on my snare many years ago and was thoroughly disappointed. Even at a relatively high tension, it seemed mushy and dull. It very much deadened the sharpness I seek in a snare drum. In my world of frequency preferences, midrange and low-end tones are for toms, not for snares.
Hmmm. Was it a coated version or clear? My experience has been very different. I love the clear black dot. I was looking for a nice pop sound and found it with the Clear C.S. Black Dot.
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
Hmmm. Was it a coated version or clear? My experience has been very different. I love the clear black dot. I was looking for a nice pop sound and found it with the Clear C.S. Black Dot.
I used a Clear C.S. Black Dot quite some time ago. It just didn't seem as crisp or sensitive as a Coater Ambassador, my usual snare batter head. The Black Dot wasn't as muffled as some two-plies, however.
 

tfgretsch

Junior Member
The white dots are on the underside. The one you're thinking of that's on the batter side is the CS coated clear dot. For that one, the clear dot is coated along with the rest of the head, and you can feel the ridge of the dot when playing with brushes. Since the clear dot is the thinnest of the three dots, that head tends to sound pretty similar to coated Ambassadors.

But the CS coated white dots are noticeably different and are definitely my favorites. When buying online, I usually search the product code (for the 14" version): CS-0114-00.

Here's how it looks on a snare.
View attachment 92601
Thanks
 

markdrum

Silver Member
It's not about the drummer being at the forefront of the setting or assuming an infantile attitude that intractability is a virtue. I just feel that for covers in a live setting, attempting to emulate original studio tunings is a touch impractical. I don't believe for a second that an audience's experience of an Eagles cover would be spoiled by a higher snare tuning as opposed to a lower one. Now if the singer and guitarist are in different keys, we have a problem on our hands. But audiences aren't half as cognizant of drum sounds as we sometimes think. Unless your snare is rattling like a rusty muffler scraping against jagged concrete, most audiences will be completely oblivious to it -- low, high, or anywhere in between.
I don't know about this. If you tried to cover a tune by The Police using a snare that sounds like you're playing on a bag of cement someone in the audience will probably notice.
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
I don't know about this. If you tried to cover a tune by The Police using a snare that sounds like you're playing on a bag of cement someone in the audience will probably notice.
Ha! That scenario is a challenge to imagine, as I'll forever associate The Police with tabletop snare tunings. I seem to be contradicting my previous points, but keep in mind that I'm a drummer who zeroes in on such details. Most listeners do not. And it's quite common for cover songs to sound drastically different from their original recordings. Attempting to emulate specific drum tunings is fine. I'm not suggesting it shouldn't be done. I simply don't believe it to be a critical factor in most situations. Furthermore, it's not very practical if you're in a cover band playing a wide variety of music. Picking a workable sound and sticking with it makes much more sense to me.
 

Ruok

Silver Member
Sometimes people forget that Copeland did not have that super high cracking snare sound on the first album. I actually liked his lower snare sound overall as opposed to the super high crack he got famous for later.


 
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C.M. Jones

Well-known member
Sometimes people forget that Copeland did not have that super high cracking snare sound on the first album. I actually liked his lower snare sound overall as opposed to the super high crack he got famous for later.


Yes, Copeland turned to high tunings after the first album.

Another fact: He used the same 14"x5" snare drum on every album he recorded with The Police. Just one drum. I've always admired that.
 

Yamaha Rider

Well-known member
All valid points. The "crack" alone isn't the reason I favor a tight snare. I cherish the feel as well. My preference is to have the stick do 90 percent of the work for me. Also, I like sensitivity and articulation, and both are more profound with tighter tunings. I've heard guys complain about tight snare heads on the basis that they can't lay into them with comfort and thus prefer lower tensions. But with a tighter tension, you don't need to lay into the head, as you can achieve impressive volume with reduced effort. With the right skill, you can play them quietly too.

I don't always go for a "Stewart Copeland" sound. I do tune lower on occasion. Regardless, I love Copeland's snare, which he described in an interview as "cranked so high it could take a bird out of the sky." I must profess that Don Henley's pillow-like snare has never done it for me. It sounds like a tom to which someone attached snare wires because he left his real snare at home. All tastes are different.

As for covers, they adopt my sound, not the other way around. If a listener prefers the original version, he can put on a CD. And the simple truth is that the average audience member is about as aware of your snare tuning as he is of the laws of thermodynamics. In fact, I'll bet he knows more about the second than the first.
The 3rd Law of thermodymics is my favourite, actually.
 

AudioWonderland

Silver Member
Other than durability, how would 2ply batter hd effect sound & feel on snare . Overtones ? ,Sensitivity ?,Crack ? ,Thanks
I am trying an Evans HD Dry on a SCB snare. 2 play, but 12 mil. It is perfect in terms of just the right amount of overtones without muffling. It is a bit heavy in the low mids and is lacking a bit in the crack/bite dept. I still need to mic it and see what the mics think of it. The Genera is better in that regard but still needs a touch of muffling even with the built in ring. The G1 is spectacular but in my smallish recording space can overpower things when recording if left wide open
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
Pearl Jupiter chrome over brass.
I heard something about this a while back. Apparently, that's the drum upon which Tama modeled its Copeland signature snare. If Copeland was playing an unmarked Pearl while endorsed by Tama, his "of mysterious provenance" description would make perfect sense.
 

Drumolator

Platinum Member
I was one of the drummers who got a prototype of the coated Evans UV2 drum heads. It is still on my Mapex Saturn V snare, and I love how it sounds. Peace and goodwill.
 
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