Effects Of Sound/Feel using 2ply snare batter Hd ?

tfgretsch

Junior Member
Other than durability, how would 2ply batter hd effect sound & feel on snare . Overtones ? ,Sensitivity ?,Crack ? ,Thanks
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Less overtones, less sensitivity(Mainly) crack can be there with a cranked head. Tuning plays a large role.
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
I've found double-plies on snares to lack crispness, responsiveness, and sensitivity. Also, I don't like them for higher tunings, and I keep my snare heads fairly tight, as I value maximum rebound above all other characteristics. Double-plies can give you a "fatter" sound, but I don't want a fat snare. I want a lean one that goes "crack." A good snare sound, to me, doesn't blend in with toms at all. It stands on a mountain top to announce itself independently. My snare is the monarch of my drumkit. It's not hesitant to assert its dominance.

My favorite snare head is the Remo Coated Ambassador. It does everything I want it to do.
 
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johnwesley

Silver Member
Double ply heads feel more like a practice pad and aren't as crisp. They have more of a thud sound. Remo Ambassadors rule.
 

tfgretsch

Junior Member
thanks guys , was thinking of trying one on my renown giging snare,to come down ringing overtones,i have tried remo PS3 ,gets rid of ringing,then the drum sounds boxy,tried aquarian mod vintage,it felt stiff and poor sensitivity kind of dead. wound up putting a batter die cast hoop and coated ambassador with moon gell its about 90% their,wish i could get it a little better . the drums even tuning range in hi, low and med ranges always has a ping overtone. Its a 14x6.5 maple 10 lug . Suggestions welcome ! thks
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
thanks guys , was thinking of trying one on my renown giging snare,to come down ringing overtones,i have tried remo PS3 ,gets rid of ringing,then the drum sounds boxy,tried aquarian mod vintage,it felt stiff and poor sensitivity kind of dead. wound up putting a batter die cast hoop and coated ambassador with moon gell its about 90% their,wish i could get it a little better . the drums even tuning range in hi, low and med ranges always has a ping overtone. Its a 14x6.5 maple 10 lug . Suggestions welcome ! thks
Try a Remo tone-control ring. It's a circular strip of Mylar that rests on top of the head. When you strike the head, the ring lifts imperceptibly and rapidly returns to its original position., allowing some resonance while taming overtones. I like it more than moon gel.

Here's a link:

 

Winston_Wolf

Platinum Member
thanks guys , was thinking of trying one on my renown giging snare,to come down ringing overtones,i have tried remo PS3 ,gets rid of ringing,then the drum sounds boxy,tried aquarian mod vintage,it felt stiff and poor sensitivity kind of dead. wound up putting a batter die cast hoop and coated ambassador with moon gell its about 90% their,wish i could get it a little better . the drums even tuning range in hi, low and med ranges always has a ping overtone. Its a 14x6.5 maple 10 lug . Suggestions welcome ! thks
I've never been a fan of Powerstroke heads. I feel like the ring kills too many of the overtones I want in a snare and leaves the sound boxy, just like you described. I'm assuming the Modern Vintage head was brand new? They have a thicker than usual coating and can take a little longer to break in but I've never thought of them as lacking sensitivity. All of my snares have either a Modern Vintage medium w/ reverse dot or a Deep Vintage head on them and I find them surprisingly lively.

I like 2-ply snare batters because I also like die cast hoops, and I feel like the slightly softer head feel is balanced by the added stiffness created by the die cast hoop.

I also think it's worth mentioning that for a gigging snare you'll probably want those overtones. Drums that start too dry just sound dull in a live setting. It's those overtones that might seem a bit much when heard alone and up close that help the drum sound stay lively and full in a band setting.
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
I also think it's worth mentioning that for a gigging snare you'll probably want those overtones. Drums that start too dry just sound dull in a live setting. It's those overtones that might seem a bit much when heard alone and up close that help the drum sound stay lively and full in a band setting.
Certainly an important point. What sounds bad from the throne can provide cut and projection from the audience's perspective, especially if you're playing without microphones. It's really a case-by-case decision to be made from gig to gig.

That's what I like about Remo rings. You can put them on and take them off in a matter of seconds, adjusting them with ease from song to song. They don't require you to commit to a given effect in the way a muffled head does.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
It depends on the head.... 2-ply only means there are two plies. Specs vary, and even those aren't consistent (example: an Evans 10mil head sounds different than the comparable Remo 10mil head.)

I use an Evans ST for my snares. It's coated with two 7.5mil plies. Although it's a little bit thicker (7%) than an Emperor, it's more lively (difference in the Mylar each company uses.) It does some of what you want a 2-ply to do, such as prolong life and tame harmonics (ring) yet it's a very lively head, closer to a single ply than you'd think. I normally dampen it a bit with a few loops of tape, or by taping a folded tissue or paper towel at the edge.

I suppose you could use it for orchestral, although I would stick with a thin 1-ply for the most delicate work. Diplomat or Evans Reso7 would do nicely.

Bermuda
 

tfgretsch

Junior Member
I've never been a fan of Powerstroke heads. I feel like the ring kills too many of the overtones I want in a snare and leaves the sound boxy, just like you described. I'm assuming the Modern Vintage head was brand new? They have a thicker than usual coating and can take a little longer to break in but I've never thought of them as lacking sensitivity. All of my snares have either a Modern Vintage medium w/ reverse dot or a Deep Vintage head on them and I find them surprisingly lively.

I like 2-ply snare batters because I also like die cast hoops, and I feel like the slightly softer head feel is balanced by the added stiffness created by the die cast hoop.

I also think it's worth mentioning that for a gigging snare you'll probably want those overtones. Drums that start too dry just sound dull in a live setting. It's those overtones that might seem a bit much when heard alone and up close that help the drum sound stay lively and full in a band setting.
good points !
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I love 2-ply heads on my snares. I've been working this way for at least 20 years now. Remo coated Emperor, or Evans coated G2, they both work for me. For me, since I'm mic'ed up most of the time (when we got to play pre-pandemic), my thing is about blending in and getting close to the sound people are used to on cover tunes we play. So throughout the evening, I'm tuning and re-tuning, going up and down as the songs require, and the 2-ply does ok. I never thought thicker heads compromised my technique, I played the same all the time, and going from a whisper to a scream isn't really a problem for me. When I was younger, I recall being under the Stewart Copeland spell and insisted everything has to crack. Not true - it only has to be that way if I'm playing in a Police tribute band. As I got older, I realized my job is to blend and be the chameleon, getting close to what each drummer did for their particular hit. So I learned how to quickly tune and re-tune between songs to keep up, but in alot of instances, a nice even medium-low tuning works for everything. There was a point I even used a coated PowerStroke 4 on the snare tuned down to get that low, phat-back, Don Henley Eagle's sound. It was glorious!

You gotta figure out what works for you, and you only get there by trying different things (when you can afford to try). If your cover band doesn't care about how you sound, then by all means, crack your way through every slow dance ballad as you want. The cover bands I play with don't tell me what to do, I just try to be an actual cover. So it's good to have two snares with you - one tuned medium-tight, and the other tuned way low. That would cover everything, unless your quick enough to adjust with one drum. I know guys who can do it with a single-ply Ambassador, I just think I do it better with a 2-ply head ;)
 

tfgretsch

Junior Member
thks bo, here is another trick i seen: taking a used head turn it upsidedown,and put it on your snare on top of batter hd,instant big, fat,Al green drum sound ,awesome !
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
thks bo, here is another trick i seen: taking a used head turn it upsidedown,and put it on your snare on top of batter hd,instant big, fat,Al green drum sound ,awesome !
Yeah I've done that too. But then I'm carrying around extra stuff.
 

TK-421

Senior Member
I use Remo Controlled Sound coated white dot heads on all of my Gretsch snares (a COB Brooklyn, a NOB Brooklyn and a Gold Series Limited Edition Maple), and they sound fantastic. The white dots are thinner than their black dots, and it makes a difference. When I've used black dots in the past, the thicker dot promoted a ton of midrange and less of a sharp attack. I didn't like that. But the white dot heads retain nearly all of the crispness of a coated Ambassador, but dialed down a notch so it's less ringy and a tad punchier. And without all the midrange of the black dot heads. For some reason, no stores stock these, so I always have to buy them online. But they're by far my favorite snare batter.
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
I love 2-ply heads on my snares. I've been working this way for at least 20 years now. Remo coated Emperor, or Evans coated G2, they both work for me. For me, since I'm mic'ed up most of the time (when we got to play pre-pandemic), my thing is about blending in and getting close to the sound people are used to on cover tunes we play. So throughout the evening, I'm tuning and re-tuning, going up and down as the songs require, and the 2-ply does ok. I never thought thicker heads compromised my technique, I played the same all the time, and going from a whisper to a scream isn't really a problem for me. When I was younger, I recall being under the Stewart Copeland spell and insisted everything has to crack. Not true - it only has to be that way if I'm playing in a Police tribute band. As I got older, I realized my job is to blend and be the chameleon, getting close to what each drummer did for their particular hit. So I learned how to quickly tune and re-tune between songs to keep up, but in alot of instances, a nice even medium-low tuning works for everything. There was a point I even used a coated PowerStroke 4 on the snare tuned down to get that low, phat-back, Don Henley Eagle's sound. It was glorious!

You gotta figure out what works for you, and you only get there by trying different things (when you can afford to try). If your cover band doesn't care about how you sound, then by all means, crack your way through every slow dance ballad as you want. The cover bands I play with don't tell me what to do, I just try to be an actual cover. So it's good to have two snares with you - one tuned medium-tight, and the other tuned way low. That would cover everything, unless your quick enough to adjust with one drum. I know guys who can do it with a single-ply Ambassador, I just think I do it better with a 2-ply head ;)
All valid points. The "crack" alone isn't the reason I favor a tight snare. I cherish the feel as well. My preference is to have the stick do 90 percent of the work for me. Also, I like sensitivity and articulation, and both are more profound with tighter tunings. I've heard guys complain about tight snare heads on the basis that they can't lay into them with comfort and thus prefer lower tensions. But with a tighter tension, you don't need to lay into the head, as you can achieve impressive volume with reduced effort. With the right skill, you can play them quietly too.

I don't always go for a "Stewart Copeland" sound. I do tune lower on occasion. Regardless, I love Copeland's snare, which he described in an interview as "cranked so high it could take a bird out of the sky." I must profess that Don Henley's pillow-like snare has never done it for me. It sounds like a tom to which someone attached snare wires because he left his real snare at home. All tastes are different.

As for covers, they adopt my sound, not the other way around. If a listener prefers the original version, he can put on a CD. And the simple truth is that the average audience member is about as aware of your snare tuning as he is of the laws of thermodynamics. In fact, I'll bet he knows more about the second than the first.
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
thanks guys , was thinking of trying one on my renown giging snare,to come down ringing overtones,i have tried remo PS3 ,gets rid of ringing,then the drum sounds boxy,tried aquarian mod vintage,it felt stiff and poor sensitivity kind of dead. wound up putting a batter die cast hoop and coated ambassador with moon gell its about 90% their,wish i could get it a little better . the drums even tuning range in hi, low and med ranges always has a ping overtone. Its a 14x6.5 maple 10 lug . Suggestions welcome ! thks

My 2¢

I always start with Ambassador over Ambassador. Then I add Moongel to various places to see what works. If the Moongel is towards the center, I go with a control dot head. If The Moongel is toward the hoop, I go with a control ring head. If the Moongel is all over the snare, I go with a control top head (One that has both a dot and a ring). The point is that Moongel and control dot/ring/top heads do the exact same thing, with the exception that the head-type is pseudo-permanent.

I'd consider a doubly ply head for situations that requires ultra durability, like house or classroom kits. I'd also consider them for kits I intend to trigger.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
All valid points. The "crack" alone isn't the reason I favor a tight snare. I cherish the feel as well. My preference is to have the stick do 90 percent of the work for me. Also, I like sensitivity and articulation, and both are more profound with tighter tunings. I've heard guys complain about tight snare heads on the basis that they can't lay into them with comfort and thus prefer lower tensions. But with a tighter tension, you don't need to lay into the head, as you can achieve impressive volume with reduced effort. With the right skill, you can play them quietly too.

I don't always go for a "Stewart Copeland" sound. I do tune lower on occasion. Regardless, I love Copeland's snare, which he described in an interview as "cranked so high it could take a bird out of the sky." I must profess that Don Henley's pillow-like snare has never done it for me. It sounds like a tom to which someone attached snare wires because he left his real snare at home. All tastes are different.

As for covers, they adopt my sound, not the other way around. If a listener prefers the original version, he can put on a CD. And the simple truth is that the average audience member is about as aware of your snare tuning as he is of the laws of thermodynamics. In fact, I'll bet he knows more about the second than the first.
Ok. That’s another way to work, and that’s ok. I just don’t operate with me at the center of the gig 😉.

I can imagine how long my career would’ve been with my giant entertainment conglomerate employer if I walked in and said, “I’m sorry, but you hired me for me, so this is what you get”. I kid, of course. I’m sure they wouldn’t be thinking, “we just went through about 50 guys to get this one.....what did we do with that list?”
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
Ok. That’s another way to work, and that’s ok. I just don’t operate with me at the center of the gig 😉.

I can imagine how long my career would’ve been with my giant entertainment conglomerate employer if I walked in and said, “I’m sorry, but you hired me for me, so this is what you get”. I kid, of course. I’m sure they wouldn’t be thinking, “we just went through about 50 guys to get this one.....what did we do with that list?”
It's not about the drummer being at the forefront of the setting or assuming an infantile attitude that intractability is a virtue. I just feel that for covers in a live setting, attempting to emulate original studio tunings is a touch impractical. I don't believe for a second that an audience's experience of an Eagles cover would be spoiled by a higher snare tuning as opposed to a lower one. Now if the singer and guitarist are in different keys, we have a problem on our hands. But audiences aren't half as cognizant of drum sounds as we sometimes think. Unless your snare is rattling like a rusty muffler scraping against jagged concrete, most audiences will be completely oblivious to it -- low, high, or anywhere in between.
 
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