I befriended this elderly professor in physiology department I spent first two years before I changed, He was a renal physiology expert and actually wrote the section in the book we used. Super nice and really worked on his lectures. But good grief it was just awful. The more he tried to explain it-it all got more confusing then med students were complaining. Super nice super brainy but a terrible teacher.This reminds me of the same dynamic of why Larry Bird was such a "meh" basketball coach. Sometimes folks that are particularly good at "the thing" aren't really equipped to be educators on the topic. That happens in all aspects in life.
Clearly drumming can have similar dynamics when it comes to conveying concepts via the written or spoken word.
In short..:
Is all knowledge up for debate..?
My own answer to the question is ‘no’ btw..
Ransan, my friend, I am not an expert in drumming only. Music in general, however...you couldn't ask for a better expert/arbiter. I've studied it all my life on both the intellectual and emotional/spiritual planes. I would have already been pontificating the hell out of this thread like I did in the first one had I knew it existed before today. But no time like the present...Damn - we need those ‘Expert’ appointed members who were adorned in their titles a while back.
This is where they are needed to sort messes like these out.
@JimmyM, what are your thoughts on the matter?
Wasn't that strange stretch glorious? As you may recall, I briefly held the title Drum Authority, having no idea how it came about. I thought it meant no one could screw with me. Then revisions were implemented, and I became a Diamond Member. My shield has been stripped. Walking on eggshells is my lone defense. A moving target, I travel with discretion and only in darkness, languishing in perennial fear.Damn - we need those ‘Expert’ appointed members who were adorned in their titles a while back.
Lol yes I’d say weird stretch that thankfully went away, glorious for the very few that were granted those titles.Wasn't that strange stretch glorious? As you may recall, I briefly held the title Drum Authority, having no idea how it came about. I thought it meant no one could screw with me. Then revisions were implemented, and I became a Diamond Member. My shield has been stripped. Walking on eggshells is my only defense. A moving target, I travel with discretion and only in darkness, languishing in perennial fear.
I think I just heard footsteps. Better log off for a while.
Boom! There you have it folks, there’s some to unpack but it’s there.Ransan, my friend, I am not an expert in drumming only. Music in general, however...you couldn't ask for a better expert/arbiter. I've studied it all my life on both the intellectual and emotional/spiritual planes. I would have already been pontificating the hell out of this thread like I did in the first one had I knew it existed before today. But no time like the present...
I don't ever want to censor anyone seeking enlightenment and knowledge, and I encourage people to question what they don't understand. So no, there should be no censorship of any threads in the pursuit of knowledge. But while questioning of things is perfectly acceptable, some things just are, and rather than waste time rationalizing why you think a 50-year expert player who's been to the big dance when you haven't is wrong, it might be best to listen and learn.
What burns me up about music is it's one of the only things where stone cold beginners with no understanding of how it works whatsoever think they're entitled to have an opinion about how they should be taught. This has given rise to what I call "mall teacher syndrome," where the idea is to keep the student coming back for more lessons, so they let the students dictate the curriculum. Meanwhile, with very rare exceptions, they never get anywhere at all with it. To them, I say listen more and talk WAAAAAAAY less or go home and quit wasting your money since you already know everything.
That thread wasn't one of those situations. That thread was mostly pretty learned people who think that all the emotional and stylistic aspects of music can be intellectualized vs others who are very learned but know that some things about music can't truly be intellectualized, like why Phil Rudd sounds so perfect playing with AC/DC while Simon Wright and Chris Slade were good but not quite as "right" as Phil for the band, despite both being "better" drummers playing the same parts Phil did.
So TLDR, no to censorship, yes to asking questions, and yes to shutting up and listening to the answers once you've asked. Damn skippy there's a difference between someone swinging quarter notes on the ride vs someone not swinging quarter notes on the ride. Could not tell you what that is on an intellectual level, but I know when I hear it and when I don't.
Ego is a dangerous thing. Most of the professionals of whom you speak inherently understand the value of their knowledge relative to the amount of knowledge that exists. At the same time, they are confident in what they know and feel no need to bolster their ego through self-aggrandizement or condescending lecture. That's when the damage is done to the novice and the less experienced.Most professionals I've seen interviewed speak of how little they know and how much they still have to learn. In regards to the thread in question, we were all given a nugget of information and from there it was assumed that nugget came from a "pro" and "expert" yet that individual has given zero criteria for their alleged expertise beyond name dropping. Also, there are no samples of their expert playing of the aforementioned quarter note.
To just swallow something as fact because the individual bloviating claims expertise is not only unwise, but it leads down a perilous path.
Damn skippy there's a difference between someone swinging quarter notes on the ride vs someone not swinging quarter notes on the ride.
..What makes one an "expert" on drumming? Are they an expert on all facets of drumming and all genres?..
The track in the OP doesn't let you hear quarter notes by themselves.The track in the op was an example
Right, the other instruments provide the swung eighth notes, and so it swings.Nope, even better- it shows us where they should be in context
So just to be clear -- you guys agree that quarter notes played on a ride cymbal by itself can't swing.So you have said many times
I'm not sure that concept of swung quarters can be isolated on it's own. I think it'll always need to be viewed within the context of the music that it's supposed to support.So let's hear some of these swung quarter notes then.