Dynamics

I also disagree with Watso about stick height. My accents come from the velocity of my stick. I can play quietly with a huge stick height, or accent with a relatively low stick height if I try hard enough. Of course if I'm playing really loud my sticks will be higher as a natural result, but that's because I'm using more velocity, I don't think "I will raise my stick height to play louder."


While Watso is generally correct, you are more technically correct.

Thanks guys for fighting my battles for me! Nice to have someone have your back!

Dynamics aren't talked enough about here. It is more than volume, it's feel. It's texture. Mainly, it's musical maturity. It's a tactic every drummer needs to do. Dynamics....happen on the bandstand. Like I don't go down to my practice room and say, OK I'm gonna work on my dynamics. It just doesn't happen like that. Dynamics are a result of both listening and knowing..... when to pull back, kick it up, or hold it steady as she goes.

It's also a team effort. A dynamic drummer with a band full of one volume players...is better than nothing lol! But my point is to really make dynamics work, everyone has to be on the same page musically speaking. Best case scenario whoever is leading the band has a refined sense of dynamics and signals any dynamic change. The band I'm in... literally can turn on a dime at any time, and that is sooo cool because everyone gets it and is paying attention to the leader, who is quite the capable musician. I'm spoiled in that respect, dynamics come easy for me because I'm not the only one doing them. But when a drummer has the control of their instrument...and the maturity to know that you don't have to play at 100% capacity at all times...then really wonderful things can happen, really wonderfully lol.
 
Anybody have any dynamic tricks, stories, or general musings they want to share?

If you can't hear the bass player clearly then chances are you're too loud (foldback issues aside). Exception is where you have a weak bass player who's trying to hide, and if someone's bad enough to want to hide then they should be hidden :)
Cool looking typeface dynamics, Henri! ... especially the crescendo: dynamics.
 
Although we often think in terms of dynamics being exclusively volume related (either overall, or as structural elements within our playing), & being an element of feel, but feel being more related to micro timing, it's much broader than that. It encompasses timbre & other elements too, plus ultimately, every aspect of our playing choices.

In literal terms, dynamic is something that moves, changes = not static. Making a decision to play a whole number at a certain volume is not really dynamics, although it is encompassed within the common perception of the term. The juxtaposition of different elements to create motion and/or mood is a good dynamics definition catch all for me.
 
Although we often think in terms of dynamics being exclusively volume related (either overall, or as structural elements within our playing), & being an element of feel, but feel being more related to micro timing, it's much broader than that. It encompasses timbre & other elements too, plus ultimately, every aspect of our playing choices.

In literal terms, dynamic is something that moves, changes = not static. Making a decision to play a whole number at a certain volume is not really dynamics, although it is encompassed within the common perception of the term. The juxtaposition of different elements to create motion and/or mood is a good dynamics definition catch all for me.

Absolutely. Your remark about timbre is particularly astute.

Timbre is often used to 'invoke' dynamics without actually affecting the volume. If you listen to a lot of popular music, it will have 'quiet' sections. Rarely are these sections actually any quieter than the rest of the track. Often, specific instrumental timbres will be selected that give the impression that sound pressure has been reduced. Listen to the middle eight or middle sixteen of a lot of popular tunes with an SPL meter and you will see this.

So our choice of note has a lot to do with dynamic perception. Playing a note on a snare drum might seem 'quieter' than a crash cymbal because it has a shorter sustain and covers fewer frequencies. An instrument with a wide range of harmonics will seem 'louder' than one with very few - especially if these overtones coincide with frequencies that the Human ear is particularly attuned to - notably those related to speech:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

So our selection of notes and timbre has everything to do with dynamics. It's as important as how gently we choose to play.
 
The part I dont understand is that all of us use hearing protection of some sort, right? Maybe not at a small, small gig with brushes or broomsticks or whatever but the majority of music is played in a loud setting with other instruments miced and maybe some drums. Maybe not the majority but lots of music anyway. The average jam has volume levels any doctor would recommend ear protection for.

I understand what you are talking about as far as dynamics and what the concept means, which I consider to be an accomplishment in itself, but I have tinnitus and hearing protection is a must for me in my R ear at all times.

The challenge for me, as a relative beginner, is to even hear the difference between when I play soft or loud with the various hearing protection setups I have (ear plugs, cans with 3 mics, full mic setup with rooms or monitor mix back from a board) in place at any time.

Can we include some of this into this discussion? There are definitely drum parts in many songs that require a little dynamic control and volume changes (avoiding the debate on the definition) but how can you really hear the difference when the band is going strong and you are all miced up with in ears or whatever?

Is this the point where you are supposed to be experienced enough to just have it? I dont feel like my snare mic/experience/listening abilities and or experience provides me with that much ability to hear well enough to control myself perfectly. Some, but never as much as I wanted when I listen back to the recording.

Think I am just a beginner....
 
I also disagree with Watso about stick height. My accents come from the velocity of my stick. I can play quietly with a huge stick height, or accent with a relatively low stick height if I try hard enough. Of course if I'm playing really loud my sticks will be higher as a natural result, but that's because I'm using more velocity, I don't think "I will raise my stick height to play louder."

I bolded the part that gets me a little bit. Of course there are different ways to accent a stroke, but I think the most efficient and "correct" way to do a basic accent is by paying close attention to your stick heights as you play. I mean, hell, the term "accent" is vague in itself, for example, it could simply be a rim shot instead of a normal hit, that doesn't require extra height.

Playing quietly, and consistently, especially with standard sticks (in a general sense) typically means you're not pulling your arm back and wailing.

My teacher's background in marching drumming probably colors the way I look at this too. There is no option in that kind of thing, an accent must have higher stick movement for both stroke/volume consistency and visual appeal as well.

I actually sometimes do an exercise/warmup in this on my pad. Straight 16ths, but I do a clave accent pattern. The idea is to focus on consistent stick heights for both the UN-accented notes and the accents; that is, I have two specific stick heights I'm aiming for.
 
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Timbre is often used to 'invoke' dynamics without actually affecting the volume. If you listen to a lot of popular music, it will have 'quiet' sections. Rarely are these sections actually any quieter than the rest of the track. Often, specific instrumental timbres will be selected that give the impression that sound pressure has been reduced. Listen to the middle eight or middle sixteen of a lot of popular tunes with an SPL meter and you will see this.

So our choice of note has a lot to do with dynamic perception. Playing a note on a snare drum might seem 'quieter' than a crash cymbal because it has a shorter sustain and covers fewer frequencies. An instrument with a wide range of harmonics will seem 'louder' than one with very few - especially if these overtones coincide with frequencies that the Human ear is particularly attuned to - notably those related to speech:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

So our selection of notes and timbre has everything to do with dynamics. It's as important as how gently we choose to play.

That was interesting!

Internal dynamics are important too - syncopated accents have to be played exactly the right volume. If the notes are played too hard then the beat gets that clumsy "gallumphing" quality (the bane of my drumming life) ... if played too softly or inconsistently then the groove loses drive.
 
The part I dont understand is that all of us use hearing protection of some sort, right? Maybe not at a small, small gig with brushes or broomsticks or whatever but the majority of music is played in a loud setting with other instruments miced and maybe some drums. Maybe not the majority but lots of music anyway. The average jam has volume levels any doctor would recommend ear protection for.

I understand what you are talking about as far as dynamics and what the concept means, which I consider to be an accomplishment in itself, but I have tinnitus and hearing protection is a must for me in my R ear at all times.

The challenge for me, as a relative beginner, is to even hear the difference between when I play soft or loud with the various hearing protection setups I have (ear plugs, cans with 3 mics, full mic setup with rooms or monitor mix back from a board) in place at any time.

Can we include some of this into this discussion? There are definitely drum parts in many songs that require a little dynamic control and volume changes (avoiding the debate on the definition) but how can you really hear the difference when the band is going strong and you are all miced up with in ears or whatever?

Is this the point where you are supposed to be experienced enough to just have it? I dont feel like my snare mic/experience/listening abilities and or experience provides me with that much ability to hear well enough to control myself perfectly. Some, but never as much as I wanted when I listen back to the recording.

Think I am just a beginner....

Can you hear the difference of the sound produced from a snare drum srtoked at different dynamic levels? each and every stroke will not only be at a different volome, it will also have a different timbre, a different projection, thus providing a different feel, different texture and so on, it's a different sound altogether... if you can hear these difference while wearing your ear protection, then you'll be able to hear the change of dynamics from your band mates, as this apply to the other instruments, piano, guitar, bass, trumpet, sax etc.
 
Notice that a decrecendo leading to silence followed by a strong snare backbeat report gives that backbeat a greater subjective dynamic.

...imagine ghosting 16ths...to silence then giving the snare a good whap....

Even if that whap is the same attack/dynamic as other snare hits...it will be subjectivly louder...because our attention is focused by the receding ghost notes.

Its related to our evolution as a predatory specie...predators chasing a moving object...or, more specifically, chasing prey that is trying to go quiet/hide.

..some applied human factors for ya...

Helping human attention to dance is the gift we are allowed to give.
 
Is this the point where you are supposed to be experienced enough to just have it? I dont feel like my snare mic/experience/listening abilities and or experience provides me with that much ability to hear well enough to control myself perfectly. Some, but never as much as I wanted when I listen back to the recording.
In a live stage setting, & especially at larger gigs with less than great monitoring, it's a big challenge for everyone. I doubt I get that aspect right more than I get it wrong. The overall band sound just isn't there as a reference, so you're winging it.

At this recent gig fitting the above description, I get it badly wrong. I back off from the chorus/solo into the verse (0:57), but take it too far. The result is my drums fall off a cliff in terms of mix. In these circumstances, it's a crap shoot, so with ya brotha :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1S5kIk6tqE
 
Can we include some of this into this discussion? There are definitely drum parts in many songs that require a little dynamic control and volume changes (avoiding the debate on the definition) but how can you really hear the difference when the band is going strong and you are all miced up with in ears or whatever?

YES! [and great topic, BTW Larry]

When you're all miced up and monitored [speakers], and if all is well in the monitor mix, it should give you more control over dynamics than if you weren't and were simply fighting the amp volume on the stage. It's the single most important thing for me on stage, and the priority in my monitors. Drums, then vocals, then backline if I need it.

I agree it's tricky when you use ear protection, but over time you get the feel of it. The earplugs can be the moongels of the mind. But since it's not only bringing my ringing down, but the hi overtones of the guitarist's distortion and the shrill vocals are also being controlled, the trade-off isn't really that big. I notice it the most when I play drums alone.

I think dynamics is a great discussion topic. It's such an important thing, and sadly doesn't get the attention it should by many. What we as drummers do dynamically affects the song so much. When used with authority, you can control not only your dynamics, but that of the whole band. And knowing when to apply it and when not to is such a huge thing. Any knuckledragger can pound the drums. Once they've finished being Bobby Brady and start to look into themselves, that usually one of the first things that pops up.
Dynamics are the Drama. How can there be a big finish to a song if that song has been reading an 11 on the Dynamo-Scope™ the entire time? The big finish goes away. As invigorating as a big finish can be, or a huge accent, chorus or fill, they don't get BIG if there's nothing to offset them and define them. Being able to bring it down a notch at points can also help control the crowd emotions, which keeps them in the game. You can bring in tension, excitement, a feeling of anxiety....all depending on how you use dynamics.
Once you start controlling the dynamics, your band will notice it, comment on it, and likely put it into play from that point on [hopefully]. If they recognize what you're doing, even if you're only making the slightest dynamic adjustments as you go, if it's done with taste and good execution, it should get their attention and get them on the bus. Once done, you'll notice how much control you have on things.
 
I bolded the part that gets me a little bit. Of course there are different ways to accent a stroke, but I think the most efficient and "correct" way to do a basic accent is by paying close attention to your stick heights as you play. I mean, hell, the term "accent" is vague in itself, for example, it could simply be a rim shot instead of a normal hit, that doesn't require extra height.

Playing quietly, and consistently, especially with standard sticks (in a general sense) typically means you're not pulling your arm back and wailing.

My teacher's background in marching drumming probably colors the way I look at this too. There is no option in that kind of thing, an accent must have higher stick movement for both stroke/volume consistency and visual appeal as well.

I actually sometimes do an exercise/warmup in this on my pad. Straight 16ths, but I do a clave accent pattern. The idea is to focus on consistent stick heights for both the UN-accented notes and the accents; that is, I have two specific stick heights I'm aiming for.

In retrospect, I don't think it's so much I disagree with you, I think we just have different mindsets to the same thing. I'd never try to play quietly with a high stick height just to show I can (unless someone asked me to I guess?), it's impractical and needlessly difficult. I just think of stick height as a natural reaction rather than something I conciously think about. I don't think, "I'm going to lower my stick height to play quietly," I think "I'm going to play quietly so my sticks are now lower." Although there is variation in my stick height (and it's probably the same as yours or anyone else's), I don't conciously vary height, but I do conciously vary dynamics.

How many of you do quiet buzz rolls near the rim of the snare drum as opposed to trying to do it in the center? Taking into account rebound and resulting timbre, I find it's quite an art to get the same timbre (but quieter) as a louder buzz roll by playing near the edge (when I'd play in the center for a louder one).
 
How can there be a big finish to a song if that song has been reading an 11 on the Dynamo-Scope™ the entire time? The big finish goes away.

Yeap, that's right, it's like the overplaying drummer executing fills every 4 bars, and throughout the song he play fill #9, it goes unoticed, inversely, if he played a sober groove, the fill #9 has all the desired effect and brings the drama and the lift it was intended for...

Once you start controlling the dynamics, your band will notice it, comment on it, and likely put it into play from that point on [hopefully].

Hopefully... yes, but it's worth mentioning that some music style strive on dynamics, all music sounds better with dynamics, but in jazz (in many forms and sub-genres) for exemple, it's an intregal part of the creation process, more so than pop/rock music were you can get away somehow with a lack of dynamics, in certain music you simply have to play with the whole scale of dynamics.
 
Don't have time to read all the replies, but GOOD THREAD MAAAN

I bought a book recently, 'Melody in Songwriting' by Berklee. One of the chapters is about rhythm, and the different stresses that fall with each note in the given meter - eg Strong, moderate, or weak. I haven't dug into it too much but it made a huge connection with something I've always felt while playing rhythmic figures on the drums, for example two 16th notes on the kick played on the '1e' counts require slightly different dynamic relationship than the same thing played on the 'a#' count (any beat). It also relates to when I was practicing (or rather, trying to get godly) at playing the main beat from Smells Like Teen Spirit. I found that if I played the last kick drum in the bar just a touch softer it helped the groove flow a ton better. Sorry for the ramble, I'll try make more sense of this when I understand it better myself!

On another note, I think the most important creative decision we can make is not what note to play, but whether to play a note or not.
 
The part I dont understand is that all of us use hearing protection of some sort, right? Maybe not at a small, small gig with brushes or broomsticks or whatever but the majority of music is played in a loud setting with other instruments miced and maybe some drums. Maybe not the majority but lots of music anyway. The average jam has volume levels any doctor would recommend ear protection for.

I understand what you are talking about as far as dynamics and what the concept means, which I consider to be an accomplishment in itself, but I have tinnitus and hearing protection is a must for me in my R ear at all times.

The challenge for me, as a relative beginner, is to even hear the difference between when I play soft or loud with the various hearing protection setups I have (ear plugs, cans with 3 mics, full mic setup with rooms or monitor mix back from a board) in place at any time.

Can we include some of this into this discussion? There are definitely drum parts in many songs that require a little dynamic control and volume changes (avoiding the debate on the definition) but how can you really hear the difference when the band is going strong and you are all miced up with in ears or whatever?

Is this the point where you are supposed to be experienced enough to just have it? I dont feel like my snare mic/experience/listening abilities and or experience provides me with that much ability to hear well enough to control myself perfectly. Some, but never as much as I wanted when I listen back to the recording.

Think I am just a beginner....

For my part, I don't really hear dynamic shifts behind the kit, I feel them. I can tell by the amount of effort I use in playing. There is nothing worse than an onslaught of volume from a band who play everyhting at 10/10ths. Light and shade is everything! Just ask Dave Grohl...
 
All this talk about dynamics and no mention of rythmic phrasing? A lot of time when a fill sounds out of place it's in part due to dynamics but also because you've broken the rythmic phrase so it seems disjointed and out of place.
 
All this talk about dynamics and no mention of rythmic phrasing? A lot of time when a fill sounds out of place it's in part due to dynamics but also because you've broken the rythmic phrase so it seems disjointed and out of place.

to be fair the thread is titled "dynamics"
 
All this talk about dynamics and no mention of rythmic phrasing? A lot of time when a fill sounds out of place it's in part due to dynamics but also because you've broken the rythmic phrase so it seems disjointed and out of place.


Hey there's nothing that says you can go off in a certain direction. If it's a good one, some great replies will follow I'm sure. A fill should have the QNP just like the beat. You are right in that a badly chosen fill will temporarily drop all the progress you made up until the fill. I like to think of it as a task to never let the QNP drop out. If you do, the song was only good up until that point, and that's where it went off the rails. Nevermind if it gets back on the rails, the damage is already done lol. Try again next time. Of course you absolutely have to get it back on the rails but the goal is for the song never to get off the rails in the first place. The goal is to make it through the entire song, right down to the last cap note, while maintaining that QNP. I think it's a cardinal sin to let the QNP drop out...even during a fill....generally speaking of course, exceptions always apply.
 
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