DW 9000 vs. $50 pedal I can't remember

So I have a "situation" of sorts, I feel bad about even calling it a problem but the fact that I'm about to splunk a bunch of money kinda makes it a problem. This starts about 20 years ago when I finally get my foot good enough to play "John the Fisherman" by Primus (in particular the opening with all of those 3s...Syncopation City). Flash forward to 20 years later. I'm a better drummer in pretty much every way but for some reason I can not play that opening anymore (basically can't play those 3s)! This has put me on a month long quest to adjust my DW 9000 double pedals so that I can better play syncopation. First of all...to say I'm not A GEAR GUY would be an understatement. I've always had what I had and just played it as best as I could. Now I have a DW-9002 *(The double pedal version of a 9000) just because I finally got to a point where I could afford the pedal I wanted. I originally bought a Tama Speed Cobra but instantly didn't care for it. I've been through a DW 7000 wore that out replaced it with a DW 3000 which was the exact same pedal just much later, wore that out, but I can't remember that old $50 pedal with the big ol' beater on it that I originally learned on??? I can't believe those other pedals would've been superior pedals, so I went to work on the 9002! SO CONFUSING!!! I learned pretty quickly to make small adjustments one at a time. It's a mess to adjust the spring tension but I think I have that pretty good. Then there is this "Infinitely Adjustable Cam" but one way is TURBO and the other is ACCELERATOR (What?). Anyway I'm taking a really long time to ask this question. Does anyone own one of these or is anyone maybe just farmiliar with them? I'm basically trying to set this $700 double bass pedal up so I can play 3s and syncopation like I could on my old $50 pedal? I realize that this sounds crazy, but
A.) Drummers don't get worse over time!
B.) If this pedal is good enough for Tony Royster Jr, Marco Minnemann, Thomas Lang...(I could go on forever) It's gotta be good enough for me.
I would appreciate ANY input on this! I have a $500 credit with Sweetwater and I'd rather not use it on ANOTHER DOUBLE BASS PEDAL but I suppose that if I was convinced it was definitely the pedal...I would.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Do you remember what the cam was like on the $50 pedal? Did it even have a cam? I ask because a lot of those cheap $50 pedals don't have a cam. It's a direct pull, sort of like a direct drive. You may actually have better luck with a DD than a sproket/cam style pedal. Are there any other problems with it, or only "John the Fisherman" (great song BTW)?
 
Do you remember what the cam was like on the $50 pedal? Did it even have a cam? I ask because a lot of those cheap $50 pedals don't have a cam. It's a direct pull, sort of like a direct drive. You may actually have better luck with a DD than a sproket/cam style pedal. Are there any other problems with it, or only "John the Fisherman" (great song BTW)?
No I like it, but my main influence when I was learning the drums was Tim Alexander. I almost feel like with these pedals you sacrifice speed for syncopation. I'm playing different things now and I have NO IDEA what that old pedal was. It just makes me nuts that I've tinkered with that pedal as much as I have and can't play those 3s! I kinda feel like if you can tap it out on the floor and your lap...you should be able to convert it to the kit. I probably would've just let the whole thing go but I was watching something Mike *(Mike's lessons, he's got a drum podcast but can't think of his last name...the buscuit guy...lol) said, he said he preferred a DW 5000 to a DW 9000 because it feels like it follows his foot while the 9000 seemed almost "too quick". That got me started again and now I'm thinking of using that credit to buy a cheaper pedal than the one I'm using. Oh yeah "Mike Johnston"...so...I blame him for this debacle, lol!
 

Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
Not really sure how you "wear out" a pedal, but in any case...

I have both the 5000s and 9000s. Very different for sure. The 5002AD3 was my first pedal. Played it for about 6-7 years and then got the 9002. The 5000 is still on my practice kit.

To me, they excel at different things. The 9000 is lighter and even at the accelerator setting, which is how it usually comes it's not as extreme. Unless someone needs the dynamics and is willing to work a bit more for power I could easily see how someone would prefer the 5000s. If you bury the beater all the time it probably makes less of a difference.

The 5000 is easier to play, but the 9000 allows for a wider array of techniques. That sensitivity makes it more demanding if you want to make use of it. Since I play without shoes I've come to appreciate the lightness and I've also become used to working more for more powerful strokes. Being as different as it is, it's worth investigating your balance point a bit.

Now, there certainly are may other pedals out there and DW pedals are not for everyone. The only other guy I know who plays a DW pedal plays an old single chain 5000.
 

johnjssmith

Junior Member
Pedals are like shoes - they have to fit your feet, else you'll be able to walk but it won't be comfortable and you won't be able to run or dance nearly as well, so if you have the dedication I highly recommend you familiarize with what the different adjustments of your pedal feel like, and then head to the nearest "big" drum store where they have a lot of different pedals in stock and try them all.
A number of things you'll want to pay attention to are: how long is the footboard, what's the cam shape (circular vs elliptic, big vs small), what's the drive (chain, strap, direct), what's the angle of the drive mechanism at resting position (for example old pedals have a fairly vertical chain/strap at resting position, while the speed cobra has the chain at a pronounced angle), how the beater feel (big vs small head, light vs heavy).

As far as the infinitely adjustable cam goes...
Everything else being equal in a pedal, the cam determines the relation between the footboard position and the beater position.
With a circular cam (turbo setting on the DW 9k, black and white cams on the Pearl P2050, all tama pedals save the IC power and flexi glide models...) the relation is linear, while with an elliptic cam (accelerator setting on the DW 9k, red cam on the P2050, Tama IC power glide...) the relationship is logarithmic, or, for the same amount of footboard movement the beater will more more near the end of the stroke than at the beginning of the stroke.
Hopefully it sounds clear enough, but if it doesn't just try setting the cam on your pedal to the extremes and look at it from the side while you move the footboard down slowly.

Have fun trying out as much stuff as you can, and good luck with your search!
 

gdmoore28

Gold Member
I guess I'm lucky. I can get the same speed and good feel out of every pedal I play, from my Speed King to my Pearl Something to my DW5000. Heck, even the imported Slingerland pedal I have feels just fine.

(Note, however, that I don't use double pedals and don't play any kind of "speed" music other than classic rock stuff from Bonham to Ian Paice. I guess a few triplets here and there is just not up to the level you guys are talking about. I'm sure it's not.)

I don't know how old Bobbo Drummer is, but the passage of twenty years may mean more than given credit, especially as one approaches 50 or so. From my perspective, the passage of twenty years may be more significant than what pedal is being used. Those DW products are TOL after all. And so were the Tama pedals. (I've read a number of posts wherein owners of the 9002 pedals like them and reverted back to 5000s, but whatever . . . )

I guess what I'm hinting at is that you are probably wasting good money by traveling through the pedal universe. If you couldn't make the excellent pedals that you've mentioned work for those fast chops, the problem is highly unlikely to be the pedal. Time to look elsewhere.

I'd venture to say that if you can absolutely eliminate the loss of technique over the last twenty years as the problem, do an inventory of what else has changed over that time - besides the $50 pedal. Do you sit differently? Have you changed your bd head types? Have you changed how the bd heads are vented? Gone from vented to non-vented or otherwise? Changed bd sizes? Changed head tension?

I suspect that it's all going to come down to a matter of practice, but I suspect you'll regain the speed.

GeeDeeEmm
 
Pedals are like shoes - they have to fit your feet, else you'll be able to walk but it won't be comfortable and you won't be able to run or dance nearly as well, so if you have the dedication I highly recommend you familiarize with what the different adjustments of your pedal feel like, and then head to the nearest "big" drum store where they have a lot of different pedals in stock and try them all.
A number of things you'll want to pay attention to are: how long is the footboard, what's the cam shape (circular vs elliptic, big vs small), what's the drive (chain, strap, direct), what's the angle of the drive mechanism at resting position (for example old pedals have a fairly vertical chain/strap at resting position, while the speed cobra has the chain at a pronounced angle), how the beater feel (big vs small head, light vs heavy).

As far as the infinitely adjustable cam goes...
Everything else being equal in a pedal, the cam determines the relation between the footboard position and the beater position.
With a circular cam (turbo setting on the DW 9k, black and white cams on the Pearl P2050, all tama pedals save the IC power and flexi glide models...) the relation is linear, while with an elliptic cam (accelerator setting on the DW 9k, red cam on the P2050, Tama IC power glide...) the relationship is logarithmic, or, for the same amount of footboard movement the beater will more more near the end of the stroke than at the beginning of the stroke.
Hopefully it sounds clear enough, but if it doesn't just try setting the cam on your pedal to the extremes and look at it from the side while you move the footboard down slowly.

Have fun trying out as much stuff as you can, and good luck with your search!
Thanks SO MUCH for this man! The whole ACCELERATOR/TURBO thing is much clearer to me now as are a few other things. This was SUPER HELPFUL!!! Thanks again 🥁
.
 
I guess I'm lucky. I can get the same speed and good feel out of every pedal I play, from my Speed King to my Pearl Something to my DW5000. Heck, even the imported Slingerland pedal I have feels just fine.

(Note, however, that I don't use double pedals and don't play any kind of "speed" music other than classic rock stuff from Bonham to Ian Paice. I guess a few triplets here and there is just not up to the level you guys are talking about. I'm sure it's not.)

I don't know how old Bobbo Drummer is, but the passage of twenty years may mean more than given credit, especially as one approaches 50 or so. From my perspective, the passage of twenty years may be more significant than what pedal is being used. Those DW products are TOL after all. And so were the Tama pedals. (I've read a number of posts wherein owners of the 9002 pedals like them and reverted back to 5000s, but whatever . . . )

I guess what I'm hinting at is that you are probably wasting good money by traveling through the pedal universe. If you couldn't make the excellent pedals that you've mentioned work for those fast chops, the problem is highly unlikely to be the pedal. Time to look elsewhere.

I'd venture to say that if you can absolutely eliminate the loss of technique over the last twenty years as the problem, do an inventory of what else has changed over that time - besides the $50 pedal. Do you sit differently? Have you changed your bd head types? Have you changed how the bd heads are vented? Gone from vented to non-vented or otherwise? Changed bd sizes? Changed head tension?

I suspect that it's all going to come down to a matter of practice, but I suspect you'll regain the speed.

GeeDeeEmm
Great Perspective my friend...I appreciate you taking time to adress my question!
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
When I realized I was making every uber pedal feel just like my ancient Camco leather strap pedal from the 60s, I stopped buying pedals and went back to an older DW5000 without the plate, which is an exact copy of the old Camco. I say find any $50 pedal and buy a spare and play!
 

wraub

Well-known member
I'm still relatively new, but after auditioning some new pedals I'm still stuck on my cheap old Pacific. It is the definition of "low rent" but it works great...
Also, a vote for the unknown brand cheepaz :) pedal on my DIY practice set.
I think it may have been included with a starter kit at some point ( I got it in a package deal), but it works really well, and has more than enough speed for me. So does the Pacific, but, it's heavier, so. on the main kit.


disclaimer- I'm more about syncopation than speed, all day long, and, also, on a budget, and, also, as well, a fan of simplicity. Your everything may vary. ;)
 
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