DTX Multi-12 for Superior Drummer - Hi Hat

Shedboyxx

Silver Member
I'm researching what kind of multi pad instrument I can use for triggering Superior Drummer.

I own an (older) SPD-S and have used it for occasional sounds live. This by using internal sounds or sounds imported from CF cards. It has also triggered toms, snares, cymbals and bass drums in Superior Drummer.

Works pretty good for that. However, when it comes to triggering Superior Drummer (2.x) it doesn't have a Hi Hat control option that transmits CC04 data. To be specific, I can trigger individual hi hat notes using assigned MIDI Note numbers but the ability to transmit different degrees of hi hat openness or closed like an acoustic hi hat, does not transfer from my Roland FD-7 to the Superior Drummer software on my MacBook running through the SPD-S. (*Supposedly the newer Roland SPD-SX doesn’t have this capability either)


The KD-8 bass drum trigger works fine.

I’m trying to find out whether a Yamaha DTX Multi-12 will handle the hi-hat CC04 generation and transmission.

I asked this question over at vdrums.com and someone answered that a Yamaha DTX Multi-12 WOULD do this but I'd have to use a Yamaha hi hat controller pedal (HH65?).

If that's true, I can sell the SPD-S and FD-7, replacing them with the Yamaha versions (maybe bass drum controller too?).

Having said all of the above, I'd like to hear from anyone who is certain of this and more importantly, those that have a setup of this kind that they use to do what I want to do.

I know that the easier way to do this is to get an e-drum kit but truly that solution would never be seen on a gig and I'd spend as little as possible on it since I'm just getting it to trigger the SP2.x. for recording. This is also not as desirable a solution because I'm in an apartment.

Any experience or comments are appreciated.

TIA

Jim
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
Check p. 89 of the manual: http://www.americanmusical.com/itemfiles/manual/yamahadtxm12manual.pdf

I think you'd be disappointed. I've got a DTX12M and HH65. It's pretty much open or closed with a nice splash ability.
You can program a sloshy sound for the open position if you like.
The Roland pedal is a bit better with my SPD-30. But still nothing like an acoustic hi hat.
The E hi hats (rather than pedals) are supposed to be better, but I've never tried them. Not worth the money to me. I'd rather use real hi hats.
If you're trying to use it for recording, you can always mic up a real set of tracks and record audio side by side with your midi tracks.
 

Shedboyxx

Silver Member
Check p. 89 of the manual: http://www.americanmusical.com/itemfiles/manual/yamahadtxm12manual.pdf

I think you'd be disappointed. I've got a DTX12M and HH65. It's pretty much open or closed with a nice splash ability.
You can program a sloshy sound for the open position if you like.
The Roland pedal is a bit better with my SPD-30. But still nothing like an acoustic hi hat.
The E hi hats (rather than pedals) are supposed to be better, but I've never tried them. Not worth the money to me. I'd rather use real hi hats.
If you're trying to use it for recording, you can always mic up a real set of tracks and record audio side by side with your midi tracks.
Thanks Bill.

Just so I'm clear - are you describing a hi hat experience with the DTX Multi-12 (and SPD-30) internal sounds or are you triggering a VST plug-in? (EZ Drummer, Superior Drummer, Addictive Drums, etc)

That might make a difference.

Thanks again and please let me know.

Jim
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
I've only used it with the internal sounds. But it seems to work like an on/off switch:

Edit: this is from p.89 of the manual.

"...Close position (ClosePosi)
Use this parameter to adjust the position at which the hi-hat
switches from open to closed
when a hi-hat controller is
depressed. The lower the value, the smaller the virtual open-
ing between the top and bottom hi-hats..."

2nd Edit; also from p.52 per below -
you can set the pedal to hi hat, in which case it will send cc#4 when pressed,
or you can set it to midi, in which case you can choose from cc01 to cc95 to be sent when the pedal is pressed.

.
 
Last edited:

Shedboyxx

Silver Member
I've only used it with the internal sounds. But it seems to work like an on/off switch:

"...Close position (ClosePosi)
Use this parameter to adjust the position at which the hi-hat
switches from open to closed
when a hi-hat controller is
depressed. The lower the value, the smaller the virtual open-
ing between the top and bottom hi-hats..."

Something like this: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RHH135?adpos=1o1&creative=55268818561&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CKa6yKSQ6swCFQ8vaQodgr8CVQ
might give different or better results than the pedal type.
To see what I'm researching, go to page 52 on the M-12 manual:


KIT7-3 Hi-hat Function page
When this parameter is set to “hi-hat” and “on” has been selected on
the Send Hi-hat Controller page (UTIL5-3), Control Change 4 messages
corresponding to the degree to which the hi-hat controller is
depressed will be sent to external MIDI devices on MIDI channel 10.

• When this parameter is set to “MIDI”, MIDI messages are sent regardless
of the selection made on the Send Hi-hat Controller page....

My Roland says nothing about the above CC feature and I couldn't find anything the same in the SPD-X manual (downloaded all of these PDF's)
I had a similar experience to yours with the internal sounds on the SPD-S. Definitely NOT what I want and very similar to your experience.
But using the Multi-12 for VST triggering might just work, giving the subtleties of hi-hat openness more naturally.

I HAVE been able to get a smooth transition using the Mod wheel on my keyboard controller. So I know it's possible and sounds good. Just not ready to shovel out dough before researching. :)

Jim
 

WalterKohn

Senior Member
Any hi hat whether is fixed or variable in SD2 will give you full hi hat functionality. You will get open/closed and 1/4 increments of open/closed. I know this 100% as fact. You will need to set the closed edge and or bow(depending on module) and you will be good to go. Doesn't matter what module you are using as long as your transmitting midi this will work. Best of luck.
 

lildrumr

Member
I have the DTXM12 and HH65. I has varying degrees of openness. However: I think the HH65 only has 2 or 3 preset levels of openness (can't remember right now) in addition to closed, open and the chick and splash sounds. The pedal itself is not a continously variable controller, and I'm uncertain if the M12 would work with one, or if the degrees of openness are pre-set to work with the corresponding levels.
It only works on the "Bright Edge" and "SR" hi hat sounds, not the "Bright Closed" sounds. From what I can remember trying the DTX900 flagship drumkit, it was the same story there.
 

WalterKohn

Senior Member
I have the DTXM12 and HH65. I has varying degrees of openness. However: I think the HH65 only has 2 or 3 preset levels of openness (can't remember right now) in addition to closed, open and the chick and splash sounds. The pedal itself is not a continously variable controller, and I'm uncertain if the M12 would work with one, or if the degrees of openness are pre-set to work with the corresponding levels.
It only works on the "Bright Edge" and "SR" hi hat sounds, not the "Bright Closed" sounds. From what I can remember trying the DTX900 flagship drumkit, it was the same story there.
Hes asking if it will work with Superior Drummer 2. Any pedal will be variable in SD2. It takes the midi value from the midi note of 0-127 and accesses it accordingly.
 

lildrumr

Member
Hes asking if it will work with Superior Drummer 2. Any pedal will be variable in SD2. It takes the midi value from the midi note of 0-127 and accesses it accordingly.
Yes, but I'm questioning wether the HH65 only sends let's say 0 - 40 - 80 - 127 and nothing in between.
 

lildrumr

Member
This circuit diagram of the HH65 confirms your query
rhysT - this is vert interesting! I don't know enough electronics to understand the diagram fully. Could you please explain in words what we're seeing, to see if I'm getting it right?
Thanks!
 

rhysT

Member
Most hi-hat pedals use a continuously variable resistor to control various hi-hat sounds in a drum module.
Whereas the HH65 uses a 'resistor ladder' to provide incremental voltage changes to the module.
A Multi-12 supplies 3.6V on the pedal Ring connection and a voltage change related to pedal position is returned via the plug Tip.
 

Rickhtoo

Junior Member
Interesting note, and thanks for posting that diagram. I have an Alesis Mesh kit, and the hi hat pedal is the exact same one, I am 100% sure the guts are identical. However, the Alesis pedal is missing the diode/resistor that goes to the tip, therefore the tip is not used on the Alesis (Nitro) module. Seeing that I just purchased a DTX502, I will add the missing components and hopefully restore the functionality of the Alesis pedal.



Also, the circuit board appears to have another missing component that could be a pot, or a different kind of switch as it's labeled SW5. There are probably many kit manufacturers that use this exact pedal in different configurations.


Thanks again for the diagram.
 
Top