Drums sounding worse when miked up

it is especially useful in a room/space where there is too much noise for tap and tune

or where you have to get a new head on in a short amount of time, and you need it to be evenly tensioned in under 10 minutes
Or in a room with everyone else tuning and such, lolol. I don't have to wait for those guitar players to finish their adjustments to get these close, close enough for me, and closer for others that want to fine tune, I would imagine. Just getting these resonant and sounding good, without fuss or bother, was a godsend for me.

At last nights gig, I just put the watch on each drum as it came out of it's case, very little tweaking, mounted them and was ready for sound check.
 
Or in a room with everyone else tuning and such, lolol. I don't have to wait for those guitar players to finish their adjustments to get these close, close enough for me, and closer for others that want to fine tune, I would imagine. Just getting these resonant and sounding good, without fuss or bother, was a godsend for me.

At last nights gig, I just put the watch on each drum as it came out of it's case, very little tweaking, mounted them and was ready for sound check.

yep...we got to the marching band contest yesterday...drums out of cases, 26 drum heads checked and tweaked in under 15 minutes, on to the show!!!

and that couldn't have happened without using it last weekend when I replaced all of those heads, and seated them with it as well...if they start even, they stay even!
 
UPDATE from OP:

Happened again this past weekend...

Having remembered I started this thread, I decided to really focus on my pre-show tuning this past weekend while gigging in WV and KY. KY was fine, but they detuned a little bit after sitting outside for about 13 hours (10am soundcheck for an 11pm show. Gotta love festivals.). In WV, the techs miked my kit up with Senheiser e604's (I own a set of these, and they always sound great). I got my drums dialed in, but when I listened to them through my IEMs, my toms sounded awful...especially the floor tom. I took my IEM's out, hit my floor tom and it sounded glorious. IEM's back in my head, terrible.

Then I looked at the mics. The techs were using a snake that had all 90 degree (or right-angle) mic cables instead of straight-end cables. Here's what it's supposed to look like:


1727098379166.png

However, because of the way the clip is designed, the mic had to be pointed straight down in order to compensate for the right-angle cable. Imagine this clip being actually mounted to the hoop. I swear, the mic was probably picking up the actual hoop of the drum more than actual head. No wander it sounded bad.
1727098541931.png


Gah. What a mess. We played a really good show! I'll see if I can post a video of us later.
 
UPDATE from OP:

Happened again this past weekend...

Having remembered I started this thread, I decided to really focus on my pre-show tuning this past weekend while gigging in WV and KY. KY was fine, but they detuned a little bit after sitting outside for about 13 hours (10am soundcheck for an 11pm show. Gotta love festivals.). In WV, the techs miked my kit up with Senheiser e604's (I own a set of these, and they always sound great). I got my drums dialed in, but when I listened to them through my IEMs, my toms sounded awful...especially the floor tom. I took my IEM's out, hit my floor tom and it sounded glorious. IEM's back in my head, terrible.

Then I looked at the mics. The techs were using a snake that had all 90 degree (or right-angle) mic cables instead of straight-end cables. Here's what it's supposed to look like:


View attachment 150548

However, because of the way the clip is designed, the mic had to be pointed straight down in order to compensate for the right-angle cable. Imagine this clip being actually mounted to the hoop. I swear, the mic was probably picking up the actual hoop of the drum more than actual head. No wander it sounded bad.
View attachment 150549


Gah. What a mess. We played a really good show! I'll see if I can post a video of us later.


yep....mic placement being a factor that many people either:
1. don't understand
2. understand, but forget
3. understand , but ignore
 
UPDATE from OP:

Happened again this past weekend...

Having remembered I started this thread, I decided to really focus on my pre-show tuning this past weekend while gigging in WV and KY. KY was fine, but they detuned a little bit after sitting outside for about 13 hours (10am soundcheck for an 11pm show. Gotta love festivals.). In WV, the techs miked my kit up with Senheiser e604's (I own a set of these, and they always sound great). I got my drums dialed in, but when I listened to them through my IEMs, my toms sounded awful...especially the floor tom. I took my IEM's out, hit my floor tom and it sounded glorious. IEM's back in my head, terrible.

Then I looked at the mics. The techs were using a snake that had all 90 degree (or right-angle) mic cables instead of straight-end cables. Here's what it's supposed to look like:


View attachment 150548

However, because of the way the clip is designed, the mic had to be pointed straight down in order to compensate for the right-angle cable. Imagine this clip being actually mounted to the hoop. I swear, the mic was probably picking up the actual hoop of the drum more than actual head. No wander it sounded bad.
View attachment 150549


Gah. What a mess. We played a really good show! I'll see if I can post a video of us later.
I use right-angle mic cables for mine, but they aren't in that style...so I can see how you'd have issues with that combination.

Glad you sorted it out.
 
UPDATE from OP:

Happened again this past weekend...

Having remembered I started this thread, I decided to really focus on my pre-show tuning this past weekend while gigging in WV and KY. KY was fine, but they detuned a little bit after sitting outside for about 13 hours (10am soundcheck for an 11pm show. Gotta love festivals.). In WV, the techs miked my kit up with Senheiser e604's (I own a set of these, and they always sound great). I got my drums dialed in, but when I listened to them through my IEMs, my toms sounded awful...especially the floor tom. I took my IEM's out, hit my floor tom and it sounded glorious. IEM's back in my head, terrible.

Then I looked at the mics. The techs were using a snake that had all 90 degree (or right-angle) mic cables instead of straight-end cables. Here's what it's supposed to look like:


View attachment 150548

However, because of the way the clip is designed, the mic had to be pointed straight down in order to compensate for the right-angle cable. Imagine this clip being actually mounted to the hoop. I swear, the mic was probably picking up the actual hoop of the drum more than actual head. No wander it sounded bad.
View attachment 150549


Gah. What a mess. We played a really good show! I'll see if I can post a video of us later.
I feel for you... but hey! At leadt now you know to add a visual inspection of the mics to you pre-playing checklist. What can also happen is they will get bumped by techs durin fast change-overs between bands and what sounded great might sound like you just describe come showtime.

My live tom mics sound pretty good (Heil PR28). My only gripe with them is the flimsy screw that is supposed to keep the ttilt angle firmly in place doesn't do its job that well. The mics will sometimes work themselves loose and start tilting downward on loud/vibrating stages and/or during very enthusiastic playing

Also, another small trick is to apply whatever corrective dampening you might want to use (gela, tape and whatnot) directly under the mic grille. That way you will keep a lot of unwanted and wonky overtones from being the loudest and frist thing to get to the mic. You want clear the way for that strong fundamental to shine through...
 
Definitely this.

Cardiod dynamic mics mostly pic up signal directly in front of them, and are subject to proximity effect. Where you position them is critical to the sound you get.

Since you can't always control the room, try and get the best from what you do have control over. Mic position is definitely a part that you can control.
Yeah that is so right what distance would you place the mic over the toms im talking spot micing from the rims?
 
Yeah that is so right what distance would you place the mic over the toms im talking spot micing from the rims?

I know that this question isn't meant for me, but anyways...I don't mind the hoop-mount mics at all, but I like them to point more towards the middle of the drum.
 
Good to hear. I have made the point ad nauseum too but it really can't be overstated. There is nothing that you can buy that will make your drums sound better than a tune-bot.

For the folks who are loving tension tuners - I'm super pleased to hear it. Wait until you (hopefully) try a tune-bot. It is an order of magnitude better than those devices, even. Sounds like hyperbole, but it's true.
I've had mitigated success with the tunebot.

I mean, coming from decades of guitar experience, I have a pretty solid ear for pitch and pitch relationship. I was puzzled for a long while when I was first starting to learn how to tune drums because fundamental and overtones can sometimes be intertwined, making it hard to discern WHAT you're trying to listen to.

The tunebot helps a bit in this regard.

But even when I followed their instructions to the T, It gave me a somewhat satisfactory tone at best, not an amazing one.

After a few months with the tunebot (and intensive touring) my new head instalation skills, tuning procedure and ears had developed enough so that I achieved better results and just as fast (if not faster) without it.

YMMV of course: we all differ on taste, tonal target, genre played and tons of other factors.
 
I've had mitigated success with the tunebot.

I mean, coming from decades of guitar experience, I have a pretty solid ear for pitch and pitch relationship. I was puzzled for a long while when I was first starting to learn how to tune drums because fundamental and overtones can sometimes be intertwined, making it hard to discern WHAT you're trying to listen to.

The tunebot helps a bit in this regard.

But even when I followed their instructions to the T, It gave me a somewhat satisfactory tone at best, not an amazing one.

After a few months with the tunebot (and intensive touring) my new head instalation skills, tuning procedure and ears had developed enough so that I achieved better results and just as fast (if not faster) without it.

YMMV of course: we all differ on taste, tonal target, genre played and tons of other factors.
I'm not sure where I found it but a few years ago I stumbled across a tuning calculator (spreadsheet) that somebody created that allows users to plug in drum sizes, desired intervals etc. to create much more sophisticated tunings than the tune-bot app supports. It has been a godsend to me and allowed me to find some really spectacular combinations. I think I would grow bored of the canned suggestions made by the app.
 
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