Drums in your Monitor? Yay or Nay?

1970's CBGB was a small venue. The bands were loud, that was the point, and they had a thunderous and huge sidefill for a drum monitor.
I was 20 years old, it was exciting.
For more refined music, more contemplative, I like to have the band set up close to each other and try and hear each other without monitoring if at all possible. But you're right, if it is trying to be rock 'n roll, you need the bass drum mic'ed, and maybe an overhead mic for snare and toms. I would still try and do without monitors, or have very little in the monitoring and at a low volume level.
 
BruceW said:
Our band is just a little bar band, most venues we play hold 100-150 max. (Occasionally we'll be in bigger rooms.) For the longest time, we didn't mic anything other than the kick and the snare, and rarely much guitar or bass in the mains. Relying on stage reinforcement. We paid attention to other bands playing in the same rooms, and quickly came to the realization that we needed everything in the PA mix, even if it wasn't going to be extremely loud. It makes the whole band sound better, having everything represented in the mains. In our experience.

Yes, once in a while we'll be in such a small room that we revert back to just mic-ing kick and snare. But those times are rare these days.
(We did one such room a month ago, and mic'd kick and overhead, forgetting that the bass player and the keys player use IEMs, and couldn't really hear the snare. Oops! It had been that long since we last used that configuration, we had gone away from wedge monitors in the meantime.)
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I really don't like it in small venues when they mic the snare. When I am in audience and listening to band in those small venues and they have snare mic'd it's the loudest instrument in the band. Heck un'mic'd it's usually the loudest instrument. A few spots in NOLA the snare is tuned so high and then they mic it we have to leave midway through the first song. Only time I let anyone mic my snare is at outdoor festivals where audience is 100 feet and more away from stage. But smaller inside venue no way. I don't like it when I'm in audience and don't like it when I'm the dude on stage beating out the 2&4.
 
Years and years ago I read an interview with Omar Hakim who said he doesn't put drums in his monitors to save his hearing.

So I figured if it works for Omar Hakim, that should work for me.

So for years I would have no drums in my monitors. Sound guys would always look at me funny, like "are you sure?" I'd be "Yeah, I'm sure".

Big mistake.

Live, I'd end up beating my drums to death. I started using tree trunks for sticks and manhole covers for cymbals (ok, slight exaggeration) because I couldn't hear myself. And because I couldn't hear myself, I just hit harder and harder.

One day, I don't know what it was, but finally, the light bulb went off in my head to have drums in the monitors, and then I wouldn't have to hit so hard, and ommygod I could finally play with some sense of balance!
 
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Rattlin' Bones said:
I really don't like it in small venues when they mic the snare. When I am in audience and listening to band in those small venues and they have snare mic'd it's the loudest instrument in the band. Heck un'mic'd it's usually the loudest instrument. A few spots in NOLA the snare is tuned so high and then they mic it we have to leave midway through the first song. Only time I let anyone mic my snare is at outdoor festivals where audience is 100 feet and more away from stage. But smaller inside venue no way. I don't like it when I'm in audience and don't like it when I'm the dude on stage beating out the 2&4.
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It's funny you say that, cuz my snare is crazy loud...so even tho it's mic'd, it's barely brought up much in the mix. ;) I've had to learn to back off on that baby some.

We have to mic it tho, or the guys using IEMs won't hear it. We learned the hard way, using just an overhead, forgetting about the IEMs. So even the quiet rooms, we need to mic it for them, even if we pull it out of the mains completely.
 
Rattlin' Bones said:
I really don't like it in small venues when they mic the snare. When I am in audience and listening to band in those small venues and they have snare mic'd it's the loudest instrument in the band. Heck un'mic'd it's usually the loudest instrument. A few spots in NOLA the snare is tuned so high and then they mic it we have to leave midway through the first song. Only time I let anyone mic my snare is at outdoor festivals where audience is 100 feet and more away from stage. But smaller inside venue no way. I don't like it when I'm in audience and don't like it when I'm the dude on stage beating out the 2&4.
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same...here in town, there was only one place where the snare needed to be mic'd, and i only played there once. All other places didn't need it, but most sound guys almost always insisted, even if I asked not to. i didn't want our FOH mix to sound like the other ones I heard in those places. All snare and guitar.
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
same...here in town, there was only one place where the snare needed to be mic'd, and i only played there once. All other places didn't need it, but most sound guys almost always insisted, even if I asked not to. i didn't want our FOH mix to sound like the other ones I heard in those places. All snare and guitar.
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Exactly. All snare and guitar. Give me some pumped up amp watts and gain on my hats and ride. Don't make my snare the frickin' loudest instrument in the band.
 
DrumEatDrum said:
Live, I'd end up beating my drums to death. I started using tree trunks for sticks and manhole covers for cymbals (ok, slight exaggeration) because I couldn't hear myself. And because I couldn't hear myself, I just hit harder and harder.
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You're going to go deaf, or acquire tinnitus.
I had my drums loud in the 80's (both hitting hard and in my monitors) and now regret it. Even on the biggest stages I can hear my drums without monitoring, except for the bass drum.
 
I only need the bassdrums, but those are quite important, otherwise I usually can't hear it over everything else, and that can be disastrous... 🫢. Makes me quite uncertain, as I do quite a lot of speedy double bass work as well, so I need assurance that I'm not out of sync with the rest of the band.
 
I am usually on multi- band shows and don't get a soundcheck. There's never any time for a full monitor mix. I just ask for guitars and a little bit of kick drum. That will get me through it.
 
I turn the drums up in my ears while we're doing line/sound check for drums, but then turn them almost all the way off once the band is playing. I'm far more concerned about keeping my hearing than what my drums sound like in the mix.
 
BruceW said:
Our band is just a little bar band, most venues we play hold 100-150 max. (Occasionally we'll be in bigger rooms.) For the longest time, we didn't mic anything other than the kick and the snare, and rarely much guitar or bass in the mains. Relying on stage reinforcement. We paid attention to other bands playing in the same rooms, and quickly came to the realization that we needed everything in the PA mix, even if it wasn't going to be extremely loud. It makes the whole band sound better, having everything represented in the mains. In our experience.

Yes, once in a while we'll be in such a small room that we revert back to just mic-ing kick and snare. But those times are rare these days.
(We did one such room a month ago, and mic'd kick and overhead, forgetting that the bass player and the keys player use IEMs, and couldn't really hear the snare. Oops! It had been that long since we last used that configuration, we had gone away from wedge monitors in the meantime.)
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I remember a friends band used to play this mid size bars (about 150-200 people) and their sound was always great, so good in fact to this day I still use it as my benchmark on how a band should sound, everything was crystal clear and not overly loud, just loud enough to not be annoying or too low, Kind of like a good quality CD.
I haven't heard many bands achieve this, more often they are too loud for the venues that they play.
 
Interesting that it seems unanimous to have the bass drum in the monitor. I’m starting to get used to it but it still throws me off how loud the bass drum is just through the mains. I guess that it is for some clarity during quicker figures?
One thing I didn’t see mentioned regarding times when we can’t hear ourselves: playing softer and less is almost always a cure surprisingly.
The few places I play with full pa support have at least 4x18” subs and the drum monitor is a 2x15” plus horn gargantuan earache. Pay being equal, I can’t see why anyone would prefer that unless there are just that many people who want to see your band.
 
Chris Whitten said:
You're going to go deaf, or acquire tinnitus.
I had my drums loud in the 80's (both hitting hard and in my monitors) and now regret it. Even on the biggest stages I can hear my drums without monitoring, except for the bass drum.
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That was the past way of doing things. I'm down to super 5As now. And I've always been good about hearing protection.

I've never suffered hearing damage from playing drums

Now, once had two toddlers at home, that caused hearing damage!
 
DrumEatDrum said:
That was the past way of doing things. I'm down to super 5As now. And I've always been good about hearing protection.

I've never suffered hearing damage from playing drums

Now, once had two toddlers at home, that caused hearing damage!
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Yeah kids can sure hurt when they scream:

 
I really need to hear everything else besides drums in my wedge--I have to hear lyrical cues and between-song banter, keys, bass, maybe a bit of guitar.

When I have had the kick in my monitor, I found myself playing more busily because it was a huge sound, not necessarily a better performance.
I can hear my own kit just fine in most situations.


Dan
 
Chris Whitten said:
I don't think I've ever had any hi-hat or cymbal in my monitors....ever.
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I meant in-house PA to audience not in monitors. Sorry. Hats and cymbals are often neglected when mixing sound in a live setting. Emphasis on snare and kick, but I really wanna hear the cymbals and hats when I'm in audience, and I want audience to hear my ride and hats when I'm playing too. There's never an issue with hearing my snare.
 
Rock Salad said:
Interesting that it seems unanimous to have the bass drum in the monitor. I’m starting to get used to it but it still throws me off how loud the bass drum is just through the mains. I guess that it is for some clarity during quicker figures?
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It depends on the venue, but there is often a lag from the bass drum hitting the back wall, then reflecting back to your position behind the kit.
The bass drum being lower in tone, and being sat on the floor and pointing away from me, that is the first thing I need in my monitor...and very little. In small venues I don't need any drums amplified and I possibly don't even need a monitor even for vocals and lead instruments.
If I had a butt kicker type stool I might not need kick in my monitor in larger venues. It's usually just to balance the lower tone of the kick with the brighter and louder tones of the snare and hi-hat.
 
Not for me if it's monitors. With in-ears (which I very rarely use) I would ask for a little bit.

But to be fair, I play a lot of jazz, so we're often all very close and in a small-ish room. If I have monitors at all I just ask for a little bit of everyone but myself just to make it easier to hear everyone. If I were in a loud band in a big room I very well might feel differently.
 
I'm often surprised (and this thread reinforces that feeling) that so many want an unbalanced feed in their monitors (some instruments over others or some none at all). I like hearing the whole band, drums included. My drums are even a little heavier in the IEM mix so that I can hear the nuances of my playing on the instruments in the drum set. I listen, enjoy and practice to music with a balanced mix - why would I want anything different when playing?

I also take great pride in having ability to play with appropriate volume (medium and low when necessary). Without drums in my balanced IEM mix, it's hard to tell how loud I am relatively and also how I should be playing tactilely. Further, while I personally mix my own IEM's, I give my band's sound guy full permission to push snare drum volume up in my ears when I'm playing it too loud. That immediately gets me to quiet it down to the level it should be out front in the house.
 
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