Drummers and Motor Vehicles

[someguy01]

Safety, as a term, is highly debatable. Obviously. If it weren't, there would be a universal standard for safety mechanisms. What is safe in one country wouldn't be allowed on the road in another.
It is still the idiot behind the wheel.
Cars now have blind spot monitors. Why? Because drivers can't be bothered to look for themselves.
Cars have lane correction features. Why? Because I'm too busy emailing/talking/instatwitfacing/taking a selfie to pay attention to my driving.
I sold the motorcycle in the US after I literally watched the blind spot indicator going off in a car as they continued to change lanes into where I was. When I kicked a very large dent into their door, they came at me like I was some sort of loose vandal. I then berated the driver in such a fierce way, they left crying and humiliated and several other drivers applauded me.
It's the idiot behind the wheel who can't be bothered to care that is the real crux of the problem.
Self driving cars are the only answer, but everyone, and I mean everyone, would have to have one. Otherwise, human stupidity and sheer ignorance to the world around them will always be the problem.

 

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Safety, as a term, is highly debatable. Obviously. If it weren't, there would be a universal standard for safety mechanisms. What is safe in one country wouldn't be allowed on the road in another.
It is still the idiot behind the wheel.
Cars now have blind spot monitors. Why? Because drivers can't be bothered to look for themselves.
Cars have lane correction features. Why? Because I'm too busy emailing/talking/instatwitfacing/taking a selfie to pay attention to my driving.
I sold the motorcycle in the US after I literally watched the blind spot indicator going off in a car as they continued to change lanes into where I was. When I kicked a very large dent into their door, they came at me like I was some sort of loose vandal. I then berated the driver in such a fierce way, they left crying and humiliated and several other drivers applauded me.
It's the idiot behind the wheel who can't be bothered to care that is the real crux of the problem.
Self driving cars are the only answer, but everyone, and I mean everyone, would have to have one. Otherwise, human stupidity and sheer ignorance to the world around them will always be the problem.

I don't disagree with any of this and highly trained drivers and well-maintained vehicles are very important. They won't prevent every crash though and I'd rather be in a safer vehicle in the even of a collision that is beyond my control.

Europe does have a universal safety rating called Euro NCAP and it has done a lot to improve vehicle safety since it was founded in 1996 - to the point where cars that have performed poorly have been completely withdrawn from sale and getting a high rating has hugely affected sales of other models. It's improved safety to the point where the star ratings have had to completely overhauled because almost every car was getting top marks.

Originally it was just crash testing but now it includes passive and active driver aids, pedestrian safety and crash safety.

@Ransan I split some of my online time between Drummerworld and a car forum and I am by no means unique in my perspective...

 

[C. Dave Run]

But if you're saying that pickups are
inherently safer, that's a load of nonsense.

I believe what @someguy01 is saying is that the vehicle doesnt matter. A stupid human will kill themselves and others while behind the wheel of ANY vehicle.

Statistics are manipulated. The Hyundai Tiburon is considered #8 most dangerous vehicle in the USA. Statistics say:

"This two-door Hyundai had a recorded 96 deaths per million, two-thirds of which were the result of single-car collisions."

What the statistics dont tell you is that between 1995 and 2008, the entire run of the vehicle, less than 200,000 were sold. So divide that 96 by 5 and you get less than 20 deaths. For the whole entire run.

It's only #8 because of percentages, not because the car is actually that dangerous.

 

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I don't disagree @C. Dave Run about people being stupid. I really don't. But if somebody else is being stupid I'd rather not be the one getting killed due to their stupidity.

Statistics can be manipulated, I don't disagree with that - but this is why statistics are subject to analysis to remove these anomalies. The insurance industry spend most of their time crunching the data to get to the truth behind the statistics. Ask yourself why a particular class of vehicle is more expensive to insure - well, there will be a reason for it and at least some of that has to do with safety.

Over here in the UK the minimum level of insurance you need on a car is third party insurance, i.e. you pay for the damage to somebody elses' car in the event of an accident. Third-party insurance only is often more expensive than just buying comprehensive insurance. Why? Because somebody crunched the numbers and realised that people buying third-party insurance only were more likely to be in an accident. For years, red cars were more expensive to insure. Why? Because the insurance industry looked at the statistics and realised that red cars were more likely to be involved in an accident.

So if you want a rough idea of what the statistics are, you can do a cross-section of the insurance costs for a particular vehicle and compare it with another.

Insurance is an almost entirely data-driven industry and they make a lot of money based upon accurate interpretations of data. The ethics of it all are a completely different matter.

 

[Seafroggys]

It's only #8 because of percentages, not because the car is actually that dangerous.

I've been staying out of this, but......wut. Sounds like a basic misunderstanding of statistics.

In raw numbers, sure, not a lot of people have died, but that's because hardly anybody was driving it. If a lot more people were driving it, then the raw numbers would be scalably higher. Simple as that.

(one could argue that the Tiburon attracted a certain type of driver that maybe drove riskier....I don't know, I never heard of the Tiburon so I'm not sure.....but we can't assume this is true either)

I mean, I personally don't care about safety myself. I drove a 1990 Toyota Corolla until two years ago. No airbags. Probably a death trap. I didn't care, I loved that car. But I also didn't pretend it was the safest car either.

One of my big problems about big trucks (aside from the emissions and shit fuel mileage) is that good luck parking them easily. Gigs often have small loading zones, or street parking, and having a smaller vehicle makes things far easier to park. Like my dad's pickup I mentioned earlier. Its roughly the same length as my car, so I can pretty much park that anywhere I want and not worry.

 

[C. Dave Run]

But if somebody else is being stupid I'd rather not be the one

You don't have that luxury. If it's your time, it's your time.

I'm well aware of how the insurance industry works. I've been paying them for 30 years.

In raw numbers, sure, not a lot of people have died, but that's because hardly anybody was driving it. If a lot more people were driving it, then the raw numbers would be scalably higher. Simple as that.

In the US, the above statistics is deaths vs cars registered. Yet a car with lots more deaths can be lower on the list because of volume of sales.

Toyota sold about 1.5 million Camry's in the US from 2014 - 2017. Here are its numbers:



That means in a 4 year span about 208 people died. So 208 deaths in 4 years in a Camry, or 20 deaths in 12 years in a Tiburon, what is worse?

 

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I remember those Hyundais. When Hyundai was first on the market in the UK, the local dealers used to do their own adverts. I remember some really, really bad local adverts on TV for the local Hyundai dealer. Always stuck with me. Alongside adverts for the dreadful shopping centre in Chatham. Good times.

 

[Seafroggys]

You don't have that luxury. If it's your time, it's your time.

I'm well aware of how the insurance industry works. I've been paying them for 30 years.


In the US, the above statistics is deaths vs cars registered. Yet a car with lots more deaths can be lower on the list because of volume of sales.

Toyota sold about 1.5 million Camry's in the US from 2014 - 2017. Here are its numbers:

View attachment 125640

That means in a 4 year span about 208 people died. So 208 deaths in 4 years in a Camry, or 20 deaths in 12 years in a Tiburon, what is worse?

You just repeated what I said.

 

[C. Dave Run]

You just repeated what I said.

But you didnt answer the question. What's worse, 20 deaths in 12 years or 208 deaths in 4 years?

 

[KenDoken]

Can we not just forget about all the death and destruction and cultural difference and enjoy a little vehicular appreciation and exchange of views on practicality?

I wonder what happened to Keith Moon's Roller

 

[SomeBadDrummer]

@SomeBadDrummer When you bring up the concern of 'safety' and a 'larger vehicle' are you referring to pickups? There was a big thing a few years ago about pickup trucks getting surprisingly poor crash safety results (this is Euro NCAP, about 2008) partly because of the construction and partly because of the manufacturers building them as commercial vehicles (e.g. van-like) which de-emphasises crash safety.

It was only when they started being sold as family vehicles that this started to change.

Bigger vehicles are not inherently safer than smaller ones in everyday driving scenarios. It comes down to the safety systems built in to the cars and how they are designed to react in the event of a crash. A pickup built without crumple zones will perform badly in a crash compared with a supermini designed with crumple zones.

There are also the obvious effect on safety for other people when driving a vehicle with a much larger mass and the potential for larger blind spots. This is worth a quick read:

The Hidden Danger of BIG Trucks

In this special report on the hidden danger of big pickup trucks, Consumer Reports notes that the trucks are getting larger and that many also lack advanced safety systems. Here’s why that makes them a hazard to pedestrians and drivers of smaller vehicles.

www.consumerreports.org

Okay first of all I didn’t mean to insinuate that I was specifically discussing pickup trucks; however I have an affinity for them having owned two in the past.

Back to the question I think the old saying is appropriate: “The bigger they come, the harder they fall”.
Both of my vehicles are full size SUVs and were made on the European side of the pond mate.

 

[SomeBadDrummer]

You don't have that luxury. If it's your time, it's your time.

Truth.

That means in a 4 year span about 208 people died. So 208 deaths in 4 years in a Camry, or 20 deaths in 12 years in a Tiburon, what is worse?

Death is the same to the victim regardless of the vehicle manufacturer

Can we not just forget about all the death and destruction and cultural difference and enjoy a little vehicular appreciation and exchange of views on practicality?

I wonder what happened to Keith Moon's Roller

I heard he parked it in the pool

 

[Cmdr. Ross]

#2.
I have a Toyota Solara that actually fits my kit really well (for a 2-door car).
The wife has an older Cadillac SRX that if I really need to bring the whole rig, I'll use that. But it's rare that I do.

 

[C. Dave Run]

Death is the same to the victim regardless of the vehicle manufacturer

I like this.

 

[SomeBadDrummer]

I like this.

There are no gray areas here IMO. It's life or death. No purgatory.

But Iron Maiden did a fabulous tune dedicated to such thought, this from one of the very first heavy metal albums i bought back in the '80s:

 

[SomeBadDrummer]

Finally had the hood and top of the old Disco repaired and painted. I spent all day washing and detailing inside. It’ll hold plenty of gear and won’t get stuck in the mud or snow lol. It’s really fun to drive.

 

[Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX]

my cars of the past, other than my very first one, all purchased to haul drums, marimbas, band mates, bass amps, hockey gear, mountain bikes etc....

1969 Olds Delta 88
1987 Ford Aerostar van
2001 Dodge Grand Caravan - first new car
2010 Toyota Rav 4
2021 Toyota Tacoma - second new car

the Tacoma will hopefully be the last vehicle I own. It is going to be the hub of our retirement travel plans in the future and is currently serving the above duties

 

[harryconway]

All my drum haulers, over the years .....

1969 Toyota Corona
1972 Chevy Vega
1969 VW bus
1966 Ford F-250
1977 Ford Ranchero
1971 VW bus
1972 VW bus
1987 Toyota van
1996 Olds Cierra wagon
1997 Geo Tracker (current)

 

[planoranger]

1997 Geo Tracker (current)

@harryconway: I had a 1999 Chevy Tracker. I think that was the year that GM did away with the Geo line. Did you have the "rag top" or a hard top? I had the 5-speed stick hard top in a color they called "Scuba Blue". It was a weird color that would actually change colors depending on the amount of sunlight....none of which was blue. It was more of a purplish color. Go figure. My wife and I loved that car.

 

[harryconway]

@harryconway: I had a 1999 Chevy Tracker. I think that was the year that GM did away with the Geo line. Did you have the "rag top" or a hard top? I had the 5-speed stick hard top in a color they called "Scuba Blue". It was a weird color that would actually change colors depending on the amount of sunlight....none of which was blue. It was more of a purplish color. Go figure. My wife and I loved that car.

My '97 is a 3 speed auto, 2WD, was a soft top, but has a fiberglass roof & shell on it now. I also have a '89 4x4 5 speed, rag top. Great rides.