Drum Teacher Time-Wasting?

[Swissward Flamtacles]

OK, I'll just recommend to consider these points without knowing what makes it so complicated exatly:
- Talk with your teacher directly. Guesswork won't help you if this has been going on for several years. Maybe he's a bit lazy, enjoys talking with you and isn't aware of it, is stressed out by teaching more due to COVID and needs a break but also needs the money without any gigs... we can't know and don't need to - try to settle this so it works for both of you.
- Is the price worth it for 45 minutes?
- Are the better alternatives that you can afford locally? There's no harm in trying out another teacher for a single lesson or two.
- If he gives you a hard time for bringing it up or if he gets angry that you might try out another teacher, run!

Also: Please try to use family-friendly language here - mods don't like politics, religion and words that start with F and S.

 

[Mr_Runner]

OK, I'll just recommend to consider these points without knowing what makes it so complicated exatly:
- Talk with your teacher directly. Guesswork won't help you if this has been going on for several years. Maybe he's a bit lazy, enjoys talking with you and isn't aware of it, is stressed out by teaching more due to COVID and needs a break but also needs the money without any gigs... we can't know and don't need to - try to settle this so it works for both of you.
- Is the price worth it for 45 minutes?
- Are the better alternatives that you can afford locally? There's no harm in trying out another teacher for a single lesson or two.
- If he gives you a hard time for bringing it up or if he gets angry that you might try out another teacher, run!

Also: Please try to use family-friendly language here - mods don't like politics, religion and words that start with F and S.

Ok thank you for the advice but I think it's time to walk away and that may turn out to be more than one thing.

I appreciate that you're trying to understand and that does mean a lot. My teacher hasn't been effected by the virus teaching wise.

In terms of the language I agree with you but that could depend on who your family are. As I've got older my swearing has increased a good bit and mainly down to frustration and anger and for a good bit of the time has been a reaction to unprovoked negativity from some other people. Swearing isn't a good thing. However unfortunately it has its place due to the way some people and situations are and is an expression of that. Again it's not a great thing but with certain people it is direct, to the point and effective unfortunately. Some younger people may learn some of that with time and experience. With some people expressing yourself in a reasonably intelligent and articulate way simply isn't effective due to the type of people they are.

I'm sorry but I stick by a lot if not everything I write. If I didn't I wouldn't write it.

Again I appreciate the more positive as well as realistic advice here that I've received. There hasn't been a lot of negative stuff to be fair but in that department it was mostly unrealistic. Stuff like that is essentially garbage that can't be recycled and is mostly a waste of everyone's time and energy that only deserves to be laughed at at best.

I have received a few private messages here regarding this topic. I wonder why that is and not made on the more public forum? Perhaps they're aware of what some people can be like.

 

[Spreggy]

A bit of advice you may not need: changing teachers is like changing sweethearts. Lay the groundwork early in the relationship as far as expectations and goals. A teacher would certainly do a better job if they know what you want to accomplish. Also reminding the expectations now and again can help keep the teacher on point.

 

[Sonorfan]

Hi I was hoping to put this out there to see what anyone thought and any input could be helpful.

Anyway I’ve been with my drum teacher for maybe about 3 years now and he’s a good teacher generally speaking and perhaps from several angles too. I think his word of mouth reputation is also good generally speaking although I realise that isn’t always a guarantee as your own experience maybe more important depending on who you are etc.

Anyway what I’ve noticed is that he kind of tries to spend the first 15-20 mins of the 60 mins lesson talking about stuff and a good bit of the time it’s not drumming related (which I guess is ok as long as that’s not too long). He seems to do this reasonably cleverly and glances up at the clock a few times as if to gauge where he is on things. Usually at about 15 mins or even 20 mins I kind of glance down and try to not engage in the conversation as much which is kind of my way of saying that I wouldn’t mind getting started.

This guy is a full-time (I think) professional teacher (and was doing some perhaps more local gigs pre virus as well) and has been drumming and teaching for a long time and probably with quite a lot of success to be fair and an ok guy generally speaking which is also important. I appreciate he has other students and may get tired of his work at times which could be partly due to perhaps the hours he works and the amount of time that he’s been doing it.

However I’m not too sure if he’d really like it if it was the other way around with me doing this to him and him paying. He charges £24 per hour and I realise some people charge more than that and maybe more the further south (Uk) you go generally speaking due to higher cost of living generally speaking? It’s not really the money that can get to me really - it’s more the behaviour and treatment which he probably wouldn’t like if he was receiving his own stuff from someone else who was charging him. I remember one time when a family member dropped me off for a lesson and they were also going to pick me up after which they did. Unfortunately I’d not brought the money on this occasion (it’s been the only time in 3 years) so I asked my family member who dropped me off if they’d bring the money when they came to pick me up after the lesson which is when I normally pay at the end. My family member did indeed bring the money when they came to pick me up after the lesson on time and I explained this to my teacher and his face dropped a bit when I told him. He got his money near enough as normal. It just gave me a bit of an insight with his view on the cash and after he’d known me for a number of years and that I always had the money during that time to pay him. He seems happy enough to waste some of mine though each lesson which can add up with the figures I’ve mentioned above.

I think what I’ve experienced is kind of time-wasting tactics and I’ve seen it before with another teacher who I left and for several other reasons as well. As I said it’s not completely the money, I just feel my teacher can take the piss a bit on a good few lessons and out of me a bit and to be honest that can piss me off. It makes me feel like I’m being too soft, seen as a soft touch and a bit of an insult to my intelligence. Generally speaking I try to be ok with people but perhaps that’s my downfall a bit. Some people see that as a weakness or whatever and behaved as they did towards me. It’s only because I don’t want to fuck things up with people and that’s easily done if you’re not careful.

I don’t live in a large place so there’s less choice with teachers and to be fair this guy is probably the best I’m going to get generally speaking I think. This guy isn’t a friend or a family friend or anything. It’s a professional relationship between a teacher and a student and that’s fine with me and how it should be and especially with the money involved. I’ve seen business and pleasure mix with others before and the results haven’t been good to say the least. Don’t get me wrong if my teacher wanted to talk over a couple of drinks or whatever then I’d probably do so but he never has mentioned that. He seems to prefer doing this during the lesson. I appreciate people need to get to know one another up to a point but that should come in time some of which will have happened.

I just wondered what anyone’s thoughts were on this? I know I can blow things up a little sometimes from time to time but if I was a teacher I wouldn’t take the piss a little with any students whether money was involved or not. I realise that I’ve maybe let this situation carry on for a bit too long and not ‘nipped it in the bud’ but in my view this situation isn’t an easy one to deal with without fucking it up. ‘Nipping things in the bud’ can sometimes come with experience that said. Being ok about things without being too soft or messing it up isn’t easy and for all I know my teacher is capitalising on that. Like I said it’s more the way the situation makes me feel more than the money side of things and it can cause a bit of anger being taken the piss out of a bit and some others have done it to me in the past. I try to be kind with people and try to understand but again that can maybe be my downfall with people.

I remember a conversation with my teacher regarding 'an older guy he taught' as he put it. I asked just out of interest how this older guy was getting on and my teacher said 'well we just talk most of the time' which I found interesting in relation to my own experience which I've discussed here.

Any thoughts at all would be appreciated although I realise that I'm going to have to deal with this situation alone in the end such is life and usually the way it needs to be. I guess that's fine as long as you don't fuck it up too much which isn't easy with a more difficult situation. I realise this sounds bad but with more difficult situations with people I've had to deal with in the past usually if it came to the crunch and worst-case scenario these people usually wouldn't last long either physically or mentally. Luckily I've used any and all of the skills I have to deal with things reasonably efficiently and effectively without fucking it up too much which is going to happen a bit for a more difficult situation however nicely you try to deal with it. Again too much of that and people will take the piss out of you unfortunately. I've had to get as good as I can with talk!

Surely you've learned enough in 3 years to be reasonably proficient. I think this guy thinks he's got a nice big old Trout on his line and wants to let him play.

 

[Mr_Runner]

Surely you've learned enough in 3 years to be reasonably proficient. I think this guy thinks he's got a nice big old Trout on his line and wants to let him play.

Hi I think you could be right in some repects. However things can change. I have also learnt more about the private teaching situation (some of which I've described in this thread) and some of the negatives that have gone with that unfortunately. I guess that's all part of experience though in one way or another.

 

[BonsaiMagpie]

I've got a good teacher, currently learning RockSchool with him, but because we are also friends I don't mind that we have a chin-wag a bit. I had another teacher for a couple of lessons who was all business, but I didn't gel with him; he was more regimented. I might have got more out of learning with him in a focused manner going back to basics but the chemistry wasn't right for me.
I'm very happy with my teacher as he teaches excellent timing, groove and feel. Though I do supplement his lessons with online and paper resources such as Tommy Igoe's book and free lessons on youtube.

You've got to look at his lesson as a whole, if you think in that 60 minutes you aren't getting what you pay for, move on. I'm not sure having a discussion with him will achieve what you want, and like you I hate confrontation. Even if there aren't teachers in the area, you've got online teachers whether this is hands off like Drumeo, mixed like DBO Academy and Mike's Lessons, or completely 1-1 with a private tutor.

 

[Mr_Runner]

I've got a good teacher, currently learning RockSchool with him, but because we are also friends I don't mind that we have a chin-wag a bit. I had another teacher for a couple of lessons who was all business, but I didn't gel with him; he was more regimented. I might have got more out of learning with him in a focused manner going back to basics but the chemistry wasn't right for me.
I'm very happy with my teacher as he teaches excellent timing, groove and feel. Though I do supplement his lessons with online and paper resources such as Tommy Igoe's book and free lessons on youtube.

You've got to look at his lesson as a whole, if you think in that 60 minutes you aren't getting what you pay for, move on. I'm not sure having a discussion with him will achieve what you want, and like you I hate confrontation. Even if there aren't teachers in the area, you've got online teachers whether this is hands off like Drumeo, mixed like DBO Academy and Mike's Lessons, or completely 1-1 with a private tutor.

Sure ok. My teacher isn't really a 'friend'. It is really a business relationship with him being a professional teacher and me the student paying a reasonable amount for his tuition time. I'm glad you have a good relationship with your teacher. I am also looking for that to some degree as well but my view has changed a bit some what with this due to my present teacher (and one other who comes to mind) basically taking the piss and for too long with the off topic talking time length. He knows he's been doing this by him glancing up at the clock while he's been doing it and gauging the 20 mins start of lesson off topic talk time. I've even heard my teacher say that he spends most of the time with an older student talking. I've discussed some of these points previously. A good balance between professionalism and the human aspect I guess is more ideal. However what I've experienced hasn't been achieving this for some time. Also I've found that business and pleasure don't usually mix and sometimes with more catastrophic results. However my more business situation here hasn't been going as well as it should have.

Like I've said before it isn't just the time and money aspect here. It's my intelligence and me basically being insulted. He's not my friend and he's still taking the cash. There's no illusion there.

I'm going to have to do something in perhaps a more light-hearted way. If that fails I may need to walk away and perhaps move onto something else - hopefully something better.

Some people just take the piss too much and for too long and don't seem to realise when they've pushed it too far and when to tone it down a bit and therefore mess things up.

Anyway discussing it further isn't really helping although thank you for your reply. I think I know what I need to do and how to do it and what to do if it doesn't help.

 

[doggyd69b]

Hi I was hoping to put this out there to see what anyone thought and any input could be helpful.

Anyway I’ve been with my drum teacher for maybe about 3 years now and he’s a good teacher generally speaking and perhaps from several angles too. I think his word of mouth reputation is also good generally speaking although I realise that isn’t always a guarantee as your own experience maybe more important depending on who you are etc.

Anyway what I’ve noticed is that he kind of tries to spend the first 15-20 mins of the 60 mins lesson talking about stuff and a good bit of the time it’s not drumming related (which I guess is ok as long as that’s not too long). He seems to do this reasonably cleverly and glances up at the clock a few times as if to gauge where he is on things. Usually at about 15 mins or even 20 mins I kind of glance down and try to not engage in the conversation as much which is kind of my way of saying that I wouldn’t mind getting started.

This guy is a full-time (I think) professional teacher (and was doing some perhaps more local gigs pre virus as well) and has been drumming and teaching for a long time and probably with quite a lot of success to be fair and an ok guy generally speaking which is also important. I appreciate he has other students and may get tired of his work at times which could be partly due to perhaps the hours he works and the amount of time that he’s been doing it.

However I’m not too sure if he’d really like it if it was the other way around with me doing this to him and him paying. He charges £24 per hour and I realise some people charge more than that and maybe more the further south (Uk) you go generally speaking due to higher cost of living generally speaking? It’s not really the money that can get to me really - it’s more the behaviour and treatment which he probably wouldn’t like if he was receiving his own stuff from someone else who was charging him. I remember one time when a family member dropped me off for a lesson and they were also going to pick me up after which they did. Unfortunately I’d not brought the money on this occasion (it’s been the only time in 3 years) so I asked my family member who dropped me off if they’d bring the money when they came to pick me up after the lesson which is when I normally pay at the end. My family member did indeed bring the money when they came to pick me up after the lesson on time and I explained this to my teacher and his face dropped a bit when I told him. He got his money near enough as normal. It just gave me a bit of an insight with his view on the cash and after he’d known me for a number of years and that I always had the money during that time to pay him. He seems happy enough to waste some of mine though each lesson which can add up with the figures I’ve mentioned above.

I think what I’ve experienced is kind of time-wasting tactics and I’ve seen it before with another teacher who I left and for several other reasons as well. As I said it’s not completely the money, I just feel my teacher can take the piss a bit on a good few lessons and out of me a bit and to be honest that can piss me off. It makes me feel like I’m being too soft, seen as a soft touch and a bit of an insult to my intelligence. Generally speaking I try to be ok with people but perhaps that’s my downfall a bit. Some people see that as a weakness or whatever and behaved as they did towards me. It’s only because I don’t want to fuck things up with people and that’s easily done if you’re not careful.

I don’t live in a large place so there’s less choice with teachers and to be fair this guy is probably the best I’m going to get generally speaking I think. This guy isn’t a friend or a family friend or anything. It’s a professional relationship between a teacher and a student and that’s fine with me and how it should be and especially with the money involved. I’ve seen business and pleasure mix with others before and the results haven’t been good to say the least. Don’t get me wrong if my teacher wanted to talk over a couple of drinks or whatever then I’d probably do so but he never has mentioned that. He seems to prefer doing this during the lesson. I appreciate people need to get to know one another up to a point but that should come in time some of which will have happened.

I just wondered what anyone’s thoughts were on this? I know I can blow things up a little sometimes from time to time but if I was a teacher I wouldn’t take the piss a little with any students whether money was involved or not. I realise that I’ve maybe let this situation carry on for a bit too long and not ‘nipped it in the bud’ but in my view this situation isn’t an easy one to deal with without fucking it up. ‘Nipping things in the bud’ can sometimes come with experience that said. Being ok about things without being too soft or messing it up isn’t easy and for all I know my teacher is capitalising on that. Like I said it’s more the way the situation makes me feel more than the money side of things and it can cause a bit of anger being taken the piss out of a bit and some others have done it to me in the past. I try to be kind with people and try to understand but again that can maybe be my downfall with people.

I remember a conversation with my teacher regarding 'an older guy he taught' as he put it. I asked just out of interest how this older guy was getting on and my teacher said 'well we just talk most of the time' which I found interesting in relation to my own experience which I've discussed here.

Any thoughts at all would be appreciated although I realise that I'm going to have to deal with this situation alone in the end such is life and usually the way it needs to be. I guess that's fine as long as you don't fuck it up too much which isn't easy with a more difficult situation. I realise this sounds bad but with more difficult situations with people I've had to deal with in the past usually if it came to the crunch and worst-case scenario these people usually wouldn't last long either physically or mentally. Luckily I've used any and all of the skills I have to deal with things reasonably efficiently and effectively without fucking it up too much which is going to happen a bit for a more difficult situation however nicely you try to deal with it. Again too much of that and people will take the piss out of you unfortunately. I've had to get as good as I can with talk!

I used to be like that, non confrontational, and perhaps allowed people to get away with a lot... My wife, (and me becoming older) changed that. She told me for example, when I was discussing something with a dealership guy and being too nice... she said, (They can't afford a car like this, so then why are they treating you as if they are doing you a favor? you are the customer, DEMAND what you are paying for.
After that, I try to remain nice but if they try to take advantage and insult my intelligence, I very quickly put them in their place... I do that with everyone, including entitled older people who think that because they are 20 years older than me they can abuse my kindness.... Well no sir!, I don't care who you are if you are wrong, I will let you know.

My opinion is : Tell your teacher that you prefer not to spend part of your hour chit chatting but rather use that time to learn more.
If he gets offended then you don't need his services. I realize you don't have a lot of options there, but to put this into context.... would you pay full price for an incomplete item? It is not rude to expect your time to not be wasted. He might be put off by that but he is NOT your friend as you said. "This guy isn’t a friend or a family friend or anything. It’s a professional relationship between a teacher and a student " So, my opinion is have him deliver what you pay for. I had a hard time firing a real state agent that I had hired to help me buy a house. That week, her husband had died on a motorcycle accident.. but I discovered that she had illegally increased her commission by $20,000. I told her that I did not deal with dishonest people, she asked me what I meant and I told her my findings.... the line went quiet... She is lucky I didn't send her to jail...

 

[doggyd69b]

OK, I'll just recommend to consider these points without knowing what makes it so complicated exatly:
- Talk with your teacher directly. Guesswork won't help you if this has been going on for several years. Maybe he's a bit lazy, enjoys talking with you and isn't aware of it, is stressed out by teaching more due to COVID and needs a break but also needs the money without any gigs... we can't know and don't need to - try to settle this so it works for both of you.
- Is the price worth it for 45 minutes?
- Are the better alternatives that you can afford locally? There's no harm in trying out another teacher for a single lesson or two.
- If he gives you a hard time for bringing it up or if he gets angry that you might try out another teacher, run!

Also: Please try to use family-friendly language here - mods don't like politics, religion and words that start with F and S.

words that start with F and S like... Swissward Flamtacles??

 

[Mr_Runner]

I used to be like that, non confrontational, and perhaps allowed people to get away with a lot... My wife, (and me becoming older) changed that. She told me for example, when I was discussing something with a dealership guy and being too nice... she said, (They can't afford a car like this, so then why are they treating you as if they are doing you a favor? you are the customer, DEMAND what you are paying for.
After that, I try to remain nice but if they try to take advantage and insult my intelligence, I very quickly put them in their place... I do that with everyone, including entitled older people who think that because they are 20 years older than me they can abuse my kindness.... Well no sir!, I don't care who you are if you are wrong, I will let you know.

My opinion is : Tell your teacher that you prefer not to spend part of your hour chit chatting but rather use that time to learn more.
If he gets offended then you don't need his services. I realize you don't have a lot of options there, but to put this into context.... would you pay full price for an incomplete item? It is not rude to expect your time to not be wasted. He might be put off by that but he is NOT your friend as you said. "This guy isn’t a friend or a family friend or anything. It’s a professional relationship between a teacher and a student " So, my opinion is have him deliver what you pay for. I had a hard time firing a real state agent that I had hired to help me buy a house. That week, her husband had died on a motorcycle accident.. but I discovered that she had illegally increased her commission by $20,000. I told her that I did not deal with dishonest people, she asked me what I meant and I told her my findings.... the line went quiet... She is lucky I didn't send her to jail...

Hi thank you for your comprehensive and helpful reply.

I see what you mean regarding some people and you're probably for the most part correct. It's just a bit of a shame that things in effect need to go that way because of some people and their behaviour. I guess that's a bit tough such is life and some people. I guess there are far worse things to have to deal with than this.

I'll admit I'm not a confrontational guy as I feel I only need to do so in more extreme circumstances. I for the most part am more reasonable and diplomatic than I used to be. Some of that has come with age and experience and I've seen more of that in others as they have matured. I don't want to close doors and screw things up unless I feel it is absolutely necessary.

I would have probably been more of a friend to the guy if that was also what he was looking for. Like I've said I've seen very little if any of that so far. Like you said maybe he's just taking advantage of who I am because that's the way I am with a lot of people. I think some people see that as weakness when in effect it is them who are weak and stupid for messing things up unnecessarily. I've seen that before.

I'll hopefully deal with it in a more hopefully light-hearted way and go from there. It's not feeling good so far though and I am looking into other options. If you're not happy in anything in life maybe an idea to hopefully look and find something better elsewhere.

In terms of the woman you were dealing with I may not have said anything to her and perhaps gone to the authorities. I guess it's hard to say though until you're in a situation like that and the other circumstances involved etc. Money on that scale is very serious criminality and may sound like she had it coming. Maybe with my teacher if things don't go to plan I'll just tell him I've lost my job so can no longer afford the lessons. Maybe untruthful but sometimes you're better off just lying and sorting it that way bypassing any additional problems that have been caused by them. I am generally speaking an honest guy. It doesn't always pay though and neither does the truth.

Oh yeah in terms of the dealership guy anyone may have been quite unlucky there. I heard some of those guys are some of the worst.

 

[Mike_b]

Idk I didn't stick around long enough at lessons. I was given breakbeats to play by reading music, I found it difficult because I am an older guy, late 30's now, but anyway the teacher told me I would have so much more fun reading sheet music in the future. I found it like a full time job, getting better that is, but if you're going up hill you are going in the right direction. Lessons has been something I've been pondering again.

My teacher, hell of a guy, Prince on his drums at Jazz music, one of the best in Canada. I'm pretty sure he got a gig down south for drumming at a college by way of scholarship. He is awesome. His school back home is still taking new clients.