Drum sound vs. genre

[Palaeographical]

That's the actual reason gear exists, really. Most of the 19th-century brass instrument boom wasn't really about inventing new timbral niches, but to bring the functionality of an existing brass instrument to a different performance context.

At the end of a day, a drum is a drum and a cymbal is a cymbal. You can bang on coffee cans and spin bicycle wheels and make it work for jazz, rock or country. You don't need a big bass drum for rock, you need a big bass drum to play for 1000 people on an outdoor stage on the grass, or when you're playing over 25 brass players.

 

[Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX]

This is probably going to sound confusing, but I’ll give it a shot:

I buy gear based on what sounds good to my ears, but at the same time, I tend to buy gear that works in a variety genres. So basically, everything I have works for every kind of music I want to play. I don’t play anything that requires any sort of specialty effects (I own no splashes, chinas, clap stacks, bells, whistles, etc.). I figure that if I ever need a specialty sound, I’ll load it on my SPD-SX.

My gear choices for specific gigs are based on the venue more so than the music itself.

that is exactly what I do too!!! I really only have a few cymbals that I could not "cross genres" with. And my choices definitely depend on the venue, and the overall volume of the group I am with...

I own about 34 cymbals, so I have most bases covered...

 

[Doraemon]

I guess it's easier to make decisions when someone's drumming for a living, because there are clear requirements. But it still depends on the person and can end up having the opposite effect where one has to get new gear for each venue/occasion and day of the week.
Somehow I can't imagine owning more than 3 of each item. I feel like crossing that line would take me straight to having a hundred.

 

[doggyd69b]

I guess it's easier to make decisions when someone's drumming for a living, because there are clear requirements. But it still depends on the person and can end up having the opposite effect where one has to get new gear for each venue/occasion and day of the week.
Somehow I can't imagine owning more than 3 of each item. I feel like crossing that line would take me straight to having a hundred.

Still cheaper than a Roland SPD-SX...

 

[GSL]

Still cheaper than a Roland SPD-SX...

I bought a Roland SPD-SX Pro almost a year ago.Another red wine fuelled, late-night "essential purchase" for the band.

Messed about with it for a few days, got bored, then gave it to our (much younger) lead guitarist to load on some samples. Almost forgot I own one!

Apparently, his 8-year old daughter really enjoys playing it, & has improved her musical abilities immensely, so I'm wary of asking for it's return!

 

[doggyd69b]

I bought a Roland SPD-SX Pro almost a year ago.Another red wine fuelled, late-night "essential purchase" for the band.

Messed about with it for a few days, got bored, then gave it to our (much younger) lead guitarist to load on some samples. Almost forgot I own one!

Apparently, his 8-year old daughter really enjoys playing it, & has improved her musical abilities immensely, so I'm wary of asking for it's return!

it is still yours, You paid for it, just ask why is everyone so afraid to offend others when they are not asking for anything unreasonable or wrong. if his daughter likes it he can buy her her own.

 

[GSL]

it is still yours, You paid for it, just ask why is everyone so afraid to offend others when they are not asking for anything unreasonable or wrong. if his daughter likes it he can buy her her own.

Agreed buddy, my comments were a bit "tongue in cheek"; my pal Alex (lead guitarist) has explained to his daughter that it's only temporarily in his custody, so no problem. I suppose my real point was that I'm a bit of a G.A.S. nerd, "just in case" we (the band) could use it...then I almost forget we have it. So obviously not essential, but nice to have if the occasion arises when it could be useful.

Our rhythm guitarist & I go back 50+ years together; he & his wife have had what many would call a very successful working life, so he has accumulated probably 40+ guitars... & no-one actually NEEDS that many. He's far worse than me

First world problem , I know...

Anyway, I seem to have deviated from the OP's thread yet again. Please send someone round to kick my butt!

 

[Hollywood Jim]

Regarding drum sounds for specific kinds of music and specific sounding bands; it is heavily dependant on whether or not you are mic'ed up and/or you have a sound person adjusting the band sound and balance.

For instance, tonight I'm playing a gig where they have a house sound tech. He puts mics on my drums and sits the whole time at the mixing board. So, I could bring almost any kind of drums and cymbals and it would have very little affect on the overall sound of the drums and the band.

There are so many variables. For instance the room you play in has a huge affect on the sound of the drums.

.

 

[doggyd69b]

Agreed buddy, my comments were a bit "tongue in cheek"; my pal Alex (lead guitarist) has explained to his daughter that it's only temporarily in his custody, so no problem. I suppose my real point was that I'm a bit of a G.A.S. nerd, "just in case" we (the band) could use it...then I almost forget we have it. So obviously not essential, but nice to have if the occasion arises when it could be useful.

Our rhythm guitarist & I go back 50+ years together; he & his wife have had what many would call a very successful working life, so he has accumulated probably 40+ guitars... & no-one actually NEEDS that many. He's far worse than me

First world problem , I know...

Anyway, I seem to have deviated from the OP's thread yet again. Please send someone round to kick my butt!

I don't need 4 drum sets and 7 guitars either but here we are... Trust me, musical instruments are a lot cheaper than kids or drinking.

 

[doggyd69b]

iPhone camera software wasn't designed by photographers, but it's a fantastic system and it revolutionized photography.

But it's not presets, is a camera, a little different from what we are talking about, and no, the Iphone cameras or any phone camera for that matter is still very inferior to DSLR cameras (and I say this having taken thousands of great pictures with phones).
A phone will never be better than a camera where you have the ability to change lenses and have more adjustments than what the phones can offer. (Again I say this when I myself use Pro camera and Filmic Pro among others because the native camera app is severely limited).
Now the difference is a phone camera is a tool, any presets (which it does have) can be something you use that already have anything preselected for you to just point and shoot and take a decent picture with whatever preset you chose.
I maintain my previous statement: Who uses presets, they are not designed (by photographers in this case) so they all suck.
And they do suck so I never use them, I just create my own.
Now some of them can give you a starting point I guess..

 

[Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX]

I don't need 4 drum sets and 7 guitars either but here we are... Trust me, musical instruments are a lot cheaper than kids or drinking.

and they don't pee, or barf on you...

 

[Doraemon]

But it's not presets, is a camera, a little different from what we are talking about, and no, the Iphone cameras or any phone camera for that matter is still very inferior to DSLR cameras (and I say this having taken thousands of great pictures with phones).
I maintain my previous statement: Who uses presets, they are not designed (by photographers in this case) so they all suck.

I think most people/pros use mirrorless cameras these days. Changing the lens in itself is not a reason for great photos, just a feature. The big difference in my opinion is that most who buy a camera these days tend know what they're doing. It can also be a Leica Q3 with fixed lens or a Fuji X100 with recipes, and they might as well have a phone like everyone else. It's not the phone that makes other people use a flash in front of a glass display, just stupidity. Sensors and lenses in the latest phones can be far superior than a DSLR from a decade ago, just look at the specs of the new 16 Pro. Presets in the camera world are pretty widely used, some people make a living from selling them. E.g. film simulation, lightroom presets etc. If you're not shooting raw, you're already using a camera preset, even if it's the default one.
Also, they just added a physical button to the new iphone that you can use to change exposure or aperture and use half-press focus lock like on real cameras, I think that's a bit of an indication that there are many camera-people who use their phones as well.

I'm not sure how we got here. But if lenses are any indication, I have to be very careful on the slippery slope of drum gas. I just bought those hihats I wanted.

 

[doggyd69b]

I think most people/pros use mirrorless cameras these days. Changing the lens in itself is not a reason for great photos, just a feature. The big difference in my opinion is that most who buy a camera these days tend know what they're doing. It can also be a Leica Q3 with fixed lens or a Fuji X100 with recipes, and they might as well have a phone like everyone else. It's not the phone that makes other people use a flash in front of a glass display, just stupidity. Sensors and lenses in the latest phones can be far superior than a DSLR from a decade ago, just look at the specs of the new 16 Pro. Presets in the camera world are pretty widely used, some people make a living from selling them. E.g. film simulation, lightroom presets etc. If you're not shooting raw, you're already using a camera preset, even if it's the default one.
Also, they just added a physical button to the new iphone that you can use to change exposure or aperture and use half-press focus lock like on real cameras, I think that's a bit of an indication that there are many camera-people who use their phones as well.

I'm not sure how we got here. But if lenses are any indication, I have to be very careful on the slippery slope of drum gas. I just bought those hihats I wanted.

The ability to change the lens is a feature that makes it possible to take pictures that would otherwise not be possible with a single lens (I know my phone has 3 lenses so it gives you some variety but still not anywhere near the level of quality I can achieve with my DSLR for pictures or video. I can change exposure and aperture on the app with my current phone even with the native camera app, of course an app like pro camera is leaps and bounds better because it gives you about 20 more presets than the native iphone ones, you also get a histogram, a built in level. etc. Yes regular folks use the phones more than their cameras initially but there is a growing movement to move away from having everything in your phone. For example Ipod type devices are making a resurgence because some high end headphones just sound tinny when connected to a phone and you can't store ALL of your music on your phone, etc. The phones are good but still limited when compared to dedicated devices. Once someone gets past the beginner stage, they will definitely want a dedicated device for better performance. The truth is most people never get past the beginner stage and are happy there so there's that.

 

[Doraemon]

The ability to change the lens is a feature that makes it possible to take pictures that would otherwise not be possible with a single lens (I know my phone has 3 lenses so it gives you some variety but still not anywhere near the level of quality I can achieve with my DSLR for pictures or video. I can change exposure and aperture on the app with my current phone even with the native camera app, of course an app like pro camera is leaps and bounds better because it gives you about 20 more presets than the native iphone ones, you also get a histogram, a built in level. etc. Yes regular folks use the phones more than their cameras initially but there is a growing movement to move away from having everything in your phone. For example Ipod type devices are making a resurgence because some high end headphones just sound tinny when connected to a phone and you can't store ALL of your music on your phone, etc. The phones are good but still limited when compared to dedicated devices. Once someone gets past the beginner stage, they will definitely want a dedicated device for better performance. The truth is most people never get past the beginner stage and are happy there so there's that.

I still think that knowledge is far more important than number of lenses. Most companies have been discontinuing DSLRs in preference of mirrorless in recent years, so it's not a fair comparison between new and old tech. Photography is just something that's more accessible now the same way as recording music at home became an option for many. Regular folks 15-20 years ago either had no cameras at all, or made crap quality small photos using bad technique with point-and-shoot cameras (or got 8 blurry shots from a 24exp roll), now they take amazing family photos with their phones. That's a net improvement. And for those who had DSLRs back then, it's just another tool.

No idea why a good pair of headphones would sound bad when you can stream lossless (and all is stored in the cloud). Nostalgia is another story. It surely wasn't the audio quality of my phone that made me buy the latest Porcupine Tree album on cassette tape.

 

[Rattlin' Bones]

But it's not presets, is a camera, a little different from what we are talking about, and no, the Iphone cameras or any phone camera for that matter is still very inferior to DSLR cameras (and I say this having taken thousands of great pictures with phones).
A phone will never be better than a camera where you have the ability to change lenses and have more adjustments than what the phones can offer. (Again I say this when I myself use Pro camera and Filmic Pro among others because the native camera app is severely limited).
Now the difference is a phone camera is a tool, any presets (which it does have) can be something you use that already have anything preselected for you to just point and shoot and take a decent picture with whatever preset you chose.
I maintain my previous statement: Who uses presets, they are not designed (by photographers in this case) so they all suck.
And they do suck so I never use them, I just create my own.
Now some of them can give you a starting point I guess..

There are all sorts of presets in camera these days. It's all software. Written by software IT folks. Not a bunch of photographers in a room. I'm a professional photographer. I don't use any of those presets I use the RAW files from my mirrorless cameras. I also use my iPhone for street photography. I had a one-man show in 2021 of my work - all shot on an iPhone.

Digital camera sales have dropped by 92% in the last 15 years, and most of that is point and shoot digital without interchangeable lenses. That's because smart phones have replaced those P&S cameras.

Analogy here is all the presets we use be it cameras or presets in our electronic drums are created by software engineers. Some input from photographers and musicians obviously. But it's software. Smart phones have reduced camera sales by 92% in last 15 years. It hasn't happened with drums, probably because it's just more fun to play an acoustic kit with a way-cool finish. Cameras don't have the same bling appeal so someone buying a P&S camera 20 years ago is now just using camera on their phone with quite advanced brilliant software that renders fantastic images. All presets drums cameras or otherwise do not suck.

 

[cbphoto]

...someone buying a P&S camera 20 years ago is now just using camera on their phone with quite advanced brilliant software that renders fantastic images.

My daughter spent a few weeks walking the Camino de Santiago in Portugal & Spain (about 150 miles) this summer. She decided to take her Fujifilm X-Pro with one lens. She used it twice and regretted bringing it (along with extra batteries and charging gear) 'cuz her iPhone was "so convenient".

On topic: Do the drums in Hotel California really fit the music? Have they ever?

 

[doggyd69b]

I still think that knowledge is far more important than number of lenses. Most companies have been discontinuing DSLRs in preference of mirrorless in recent years, so it's not a fair comparison between new and old tech. Photography is just something that's more accessible now the same way as recording music at home became an option for many. Regular folks 15-20 years ago either had no cameras at all, or made crap quality small photos using bad technique with point-and-shoot cameras (or got 8 blurry shots from a 24exp roll), now they take amazing family photos with their phones. That's a net improvement. And for those who had DSLRs back then, it's just another tool.

No idea why a good pair of headphones would sound bad when you can stream lossless (and all is stored in the cloud). Nostalgia is another story. It surely wasn't the audio quality of my phone that made me buy the latest Porcupine Tree album on cassette tape.

Headphones wouldn't sound bad, but certainly would not sound as good as they could with a dedicated device with a proper headphone amp. I tested that with my audio interface vs just plugged straight into my laptop, big difference. The music was still coming from the laptop but being processed by the audio interface which was giving the Headphones the proper voltage. that is something phones can't do.

 

[SmoothOperator]

There are all sorts of presets in camera these days. It's all software. Written by software IT folks. Not a bunch of photographers in a room. I'm a professional photographer. I don't use any of those presets I use the RAW files from my mirrorless cameras. I also use my iPhone for street photography. I had a one-man show in 2021 of my work - all shot on an iPhone.

Digital camera sales have dropped by 92% in the last 15 years, and most of that is point and shoot digital without interchangeable lenses. That's because smart phones have replaced those P&S cameras.

Analogy here is all the presets we use be it cameras or presets in our electronic drums are created by software engineers. Some input from photographers and musicians obviously. But it's software. Smart phones have reduced camera sales by 92% in last 15 years. It hasn't happened with drums, probably because it's just more fun to play an acoustic kit with a way-cool finish. Cameras don't have the same bling appeal so someone buying a P&S camera 20 years ago is now just using camera on their phone with quite advanced brilliant software that renders fantastic images. All presets drums cameras or otherwise do not suck.

I've done mirrorless since sony nex-6 great stuff. I especially like using old canon FD glass, they just don't make lenses like that anymore. I finally upgraded to the a6300, I shot an indoor swim meet this summer. Lot's of action indoor light not flash(they use strobes to start the races), that canon 50mm 1.4 manual was the lens.

At one time my sister was going into photography. I was trying to 'splain to her mirrorless, but she didn't get it, she's the kind a person that just needs a Nikon. I've been tempted to get an automatic lens, besides the kit lens, but once I had the EVF I don't think I need them.

It's a shame though, no one really gets prints anymore.

 

[cbphoto]

It's a shame though, no one really gets prints anymore.

I do!

 

[Cmdr. Ross]

At 53 years old, they either like what I bring to the table (and adjust to the best of my ability) or I walk away.
If they want to purchase something for me to use, sure....

Otherwise you get what you get.