Drum Features You Miss

[KarlCrafton]

I miss the Red/Black Yamaha "system" stands from the mid 80's.

It all worked together, the pieces were thought out, the mounts were on the drum and didn't inhibit resonance OR cover the drum up with chrome.
The cymbal stand post was IN LINE with the tubes, so where the center of the stand was, that was the center of the cymbal.
Every bolt, screw and wing nut was comfortable in your hand, and did what it was supposed to do (stay put).

I hated Yanaha's change to the off-set tilters.

I'd like to see a return of the adjustable style ride/splash cymbal mount Rogers used to have. That was pretty cool.
The Rogers stick holder was awesome too.

 

[fl.tom]

I miss the Red/Black Yamaha "system" stands from the mid 80's.
...
The cymbal stand post was IN LINE with the tubes, so where the center of the stand was, that was the center of the cymbal.
Every bolt, screw and wing nut was comfortable in your hand, and did what it was supposed to do (stay put).
...
I hated Yanaha's change to the off-set tilters.

Can definitely appreciate this. FWIW, Yamaha only used offset tilters on the CSx40/x45 models of newer purple label 700, 800 and 900 series. The purple label CSx30/x35 models before them as well as the current CS750/755 models have straight tilters similar to the red label era. Also, the newer infinite adjustment tilters on the current 800 and 900 series can be positioned inline.

Granted, the 600 and 3 (Crosstown) series still have offset tilters, but at least there’s the option to use the other series.

After using both the older and newer stands for years, there are some benefits with the newer...

- collar locking clamp + insert designs are less likely to dent tubes
- closed collars are stronger and quicker to tighten than open collars
- boom arm clamps are stronger than and don’t dent arms like bolt-in design
- lightning-bolt wing nuts are easier to loosen & tighten for larger hands than Y-shape style (certainly subjective)
- ... possibly others ...

For me, the overall drum and hardware changes from Yamaha (as well as DW, Ludwig, Pearl, Sonor and Tama) have been more positive than negative. Love the T-handles on the Ludwigs and Yamahas though. YMMV of course. ;-)

 

[gdmoore28]

Well, now. This is a good thread. And, like Larry, I'm thrilled with the direction drum technology has taken us with tight, consistent shells and excellent hardware. Yes, I'm aware that just as all automobiles look alike nowadays, almost all modern drums sound alike, or so close that lots of money doesn't necessarily buy a superior-sounding kit.

But the comments you guys have had makes me realize that there are certain things that were common on old sets that are (sometimes sorely) missed on today's kits. Several of these have already been mentioned.

- Bass drum-mounted cymbal L-arms. These are simply required equipment for me, so when a kit that doesn't have one comes my way, out comes the drill, as well.

- Internal tone controls? I don't miss those, but not because they couldn't be useful. They could be indispensable if design and development on them hadn't stopped in the 1940s. Imagine a correctly-engineered modern design that would not rattle, offered truly minute adjustment, and was made from interchangeable muffling material that was subtle in its effects. Perfect.

- Only partly concerned with old kits, but a truly beautiful multifunction tom mount system. A system that could hold (at least) two toms, but then convertible to a minimalistic side-mount holder of the lovely W&A mounts of lore. Granted, our current dbl-tom holders are better than ever. But lots of people like to play one-up sometimes (or always), and we are left trying to work with essentially 1/2 of a dbl-tom mount that in most cases carries the single tom far too high. How about a simple mount that would slide into the dbl-tom holder's base, extend a curved bar to the side, and carry the single tom on the side of the bass drum, where it belongs?

- Bass drum T-rods? Yes, please.

- Old Slingerland-style "sticksaver" hoops are the bomb. As are heavy versions of the same. And Gretsch had the right idea in equipping everything with cast hoops. (Maybe if they were in wider use, the cost would come down greatly?)

- And when it comes to functional, beautiful, and reliable (and isolating!) tom mounts, Yamaha knocked it out of the park with the original YESS mounts. I don't know why they felt the need to "improve" them. Ask yourself, have you ever seen an original YESS mount break from a shell? Never. Not me.

There are more, I'm sure. Let me think . . . .

GeeDeeEmm

 

[WallyY]

I miss the time when the basement was a scary place if the lights went off. I'm down there so much more now that I'll probably die from radon gas.

I think some of the limitations of drum construction made them have more character. Now there are more similar qualities to them.

I could do without ever hanging a tom off a cymbal stand. That's just silly.

 

[GetAgrippa]

I miss the time when the basement was a scary place if the lights went off. I'm down there so much more now that I'll probably die from radon gas.

I think some of the limitations of drum construction made them have more character. Now there are more similar qualities to them.

I could do without ever hanging a tom off a cymbal stand. That's just silly.

I remember back the 70s practicing in this home that had a built in FallOut shelter-nuclear annihilation was a real threat. The ceiling a popcorn asbestos that would fall down on us like snow. Yep just the beginning of al the toxic crap I've been exposed through the years (cough, cough, twitch, twitch).

 

[AxisDrummer]

As for bass drum T handles, maybe it's just my OCD, but I would need to have all of the T handles parallel to the hoop, or it would look "off". Therefore I wouldn't be able to get the tension exactly even all the way around. Again, it's probably just me on that one, but I'd still rather choose perfect tuning over the "convenience" of not pulling out a key (exactly how difficult is that, anyway?). And while I've never owned a bass drum that can mount a ride cymbal, my guess is that you'd have limited positioning options. Personally, I'd rather just carry a separate stand and get my ride exactly where I want it.

My very first drum kit, a "Blackhawk By Gretsch" purchased from a Sears Catalog in 1991-1992 has the bass drum T-handles. And I always had every one parallel to the hoop. As a 13-14 year old first-time drummer, I knew (or cared) nothing of the tuning. Give me today's regular drum key lug bolts any day.

 

[Rattlin' Bones]

I'm not much of a fan of T handles on kick either. Seems if I move in and out of house and gigs, tuning would change because I'd bump them getting them in and out of soft case. I don't miss them.

 

[PorkPieGuy]

I've been surprised that so many people miss the t-handles. I would have never guessed.

 

[Pootle]

I miss direct tom mounts I've never liked so called tom isolation systems from the past 20 odd years. So much cleaner and classic looking, no pointless chunks of metal, less wobble or movement and I honestly don't there's any major discernible difference. I wish I had the balls to get the drills out but I just know I'd screw it up!

 

[gdmoore28]

I miss direct tom mounts I've never liked so called tom isolation systems from the past 20 odd years. So much cleaner and classic looking, no pointless chunks of metal, less wobble or movement and I honestly don't there's any major discernible difference. I wish I had the balls to get the drills out but I just know I'd screw it up!

I hear 'ya. I miss the simplicity and clean looks of a shell-mounted tom mount. However, I must disagree with the idea that there isn't "any major discernible difference" between a traditionally-mounted tom and one that uses an isolation mount. Besides participating in RIMS comparison displays, I've done a lot of experimenting on my own, and to my ears there is no doubt that isolation mounts work.

And that's why I mentioned the Yamaha YESS system in my last post. Yamaha licensed the patent for the "nodal point" system (from Nobel and Cooley) because it was proven to work (http://www.noblecooley.com/solid-shell-classics) in canceling out the damping properties of the tom mount and allowing the tom to ring uninhibited.

So, with the original YESS mount, one is offered the best of both worlds - classic and clean-looking mounting hardware and the benefits of isolation mounting. Even though I use them, I absolutely hate the looks of most RIMS-style iso mounts (with the exception of the Tama Star Cast system when fitted with chrome finishes and cast hoops - that is a beautiful fixture).

Looks like I need to read up some on properly positioning the mount using N&C's nodal point system, buy up some YESS mounts, and install them on my drums. Just need to figure out a way to do this and retain the 10.5mm L-rod mounts that I already have. There's always a catch, huh?

GeeDeeEmm

Original Yamaha YESS Nodal Point Mounting System

 

[Rattlin' Bones]

I agree with you. Many isolation and suspension mounts mounts just look horrible. Why go to trouble of picking out your fav finish only to have the look ruined by all that metal.

This is ugly. The tom mounts are ugly. The rack makes it worse.

I miss direct tom mounts I've never liked so called tom isolation systems from the past 20 odd years. So much cleaner and classic looking, no pointless chunks of metal, less wobble or movement and I honestly don't there's any major discernible difference. I wish I had the balls to get the drills out but I just know I'd screw it up!

 

[donzo74]

Ludwig stopped making the super sensitive
Liked the one I had and also I had a Yamaha brass 3.5 before Yamaha cheaped them up

Yes, I still have an 80's LM410, as well. The chrome is flaking off like crazy but it's still got that Ludwig sound.

I was also reminded recently while watching a DCP video that the 1980 Tama Bell Brass had the Mastercraft snare system with the extended snares, too. It might not be the only reason those things sound so good (some would say THE BEST SNARES EVER) but I'm convinced it's part of the magic and also part of the reason that the reissues weren't quite the same. Drum manufacturers take note!

 

[yammyfan]

So, with the original YESS mount, one is offered the best of both worlds - classic and clean-looking mounting hardware and the benefits of isolation mounting. Even though I use them, I absolutely hate the looks of most RIMS-style iso mounts (with the exception of the Tama Star Cast system when fitted with chrome finishes and cast hoops - that is a beautiful fixture).

Here's an original YESS mount with diecast hoops. Not the same as the Tama system but not bad looking either.



I never owned decent drums when I was young so I don't miss much from those days. I played a nice old Ludwig kit not long ago that had a cool tom mount and kick mounted cymbal. It sounded great despite the ancient heads that were installed on it:

 

[petrez]

Guess I'm not in a majority on this, but I do wish it was possible to buy a kit with powertoms these days and not have to go all custom about it. Yes, it's not the most practical in terms of placement and practicality, but I do think they just sound deeper and looks so awesome on a big doublebass kit, in the metal genre. But I do see that in almost any other style it's close to useless, but it would still be nice to get a kit like that without having to get a really old kit or pay several thousands for a custom high-end kit.

Otherwise I don't think I miss much, maybe for Tama to still keep making the legendary Bell Brass snare of the 80's...

 

[larryace]

I miss hearing a real snare drum on pop music. I mean pop songs.

 

[paradiddle pete]

I miss pop songs

 

[Pootle]

I agree with you. Many isolation and suspension mounts mounts just look horrible. Why go to trouble of picking out your fav finish only to have the look ruined by all that metal.

This is ugly. The tom mounts are ugly. The rack makes it worse.
View attachment 87180

Plus they feature on all pricelevels of kits these days, you have to go all the way up to a 3k Gretsch Broadkaster before you have your choice of tom mount. I also find it a pain in the arse to tune properly because I can't get my fingers on the screws to tighten the lugs evenly.

 

[Mustion]

I've been surprised that so many people miss the t-handles. I would have never guessed.

Same here. They snag on drum bags, guitar cables, legs, and as someone mentioned before, invoke an OCD urge to turn them all flush to the curve of the drum. Any vintage kick I've acquired has immediately seen its T-handles replaced by the drum key version.

 

[dwsabianguy]

T-rods get in the way of my kick drum pedals. All my kicks have T-rods, but I still need to change out one or two at the bottom of the batter side to get the pedal to mount flush. Maybe it's time to do some converting...

Honestly, I've got everything I want out the kits I own, but I do wish someone would bring back a Hokkaido birch kit... it doesn't seem likely that the new Sakae is going to hit the mark with the Taiwanese kits. Hopefully I'm wrong about that.

I do wish high-end drums would get rid of plastic parts completely, with few exceptions. I picked up an old Yamaha snare, and the entire throwoff was easily disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled needing nothing more than a Phillips head screwdriver; everything is metal, and it works spectacularly. Feels like everything now is riveted, and has integral plastic pieces, and it's impossible to fix those things when they break. Just gotta buy a new one.

 

[dboomer]

And that's why I mentioned the Yamaha YESS system in my last post. Yamaha licensed the patent for the "nodal point" system (from Nobel and Cooley) because it was proven to work (http://www.noblecooley.com/solid-shell-classics) in canceling out the damping properties of the tom mount and allowing the tom to ring uninhibited.

Not to go completely off topic ... but ... the nodal point primarily only occurs at only a single frequency. So if you don’t tune to that frequency it doesn’t really matter whether it’s there or not. Most have probably experienced this with bass rigs. They might ring out uncontrollably on a certain note. But if you don’t play that note then there is no ringing. Same thing with a drum. Wavelengths and multiples are set by dimensions of the shell but tuning is set by tension on the heads. So to maximize shell contributions to the overall drum sound you can tune for it or tune it out