Drum De-Tuning and perhaps a Gretsch Secret

NouveauCliche

Senior Member
Hey all - I've been rolling with my Brooklyn's now for a couple years and I've noticed one problem with the toms.

I find that my toms - especially my rack toms have a tendency to de-tune. Each show really requires a check of the tuning around the whole kit just to make sure I'm sounding ok for the set.

Not sure if you folks have recommendations on this - different washers...some gadgets, etc? So maybe just a de-tuning general thread.

My other thought is two fold. Perhaps the reason the high end Grestch kits come with the RIMS style mount is to help alleviate this problem - especially with the 5 lug design.

The lugs that de-tune the most are the two that are closest to the tom holder and I switched to the style of bracket from the renown series vs. the RIMS style mount.

So I'm wondering if my particular problem is something Gretsch might be aware of on some level and had alleviated by going to the RIMS mount - then I just un-did all their work.


Maybe just some conspiracy theory play at work haha.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry" - Administrator
Staff member
Canopus bolt tight leather washers might be a solution. That's their main purpose, tight bolts.

Drums that have a lot of shell resonance detune quickly. My solid shell toms detune easy. I'd say it's a good sign that your shells are contributing heavily to the tone, but it is still a pesky problem.
 

Ransan

Senior Member
Not a Gretsch guy, but don’t Brooks come with 302s?

That would be glaring to me initially, for having a tom that doesn’t hold.

With the things you mentioned, I’m surprised they came with those types of mounts for a heritage kit, or did you add those?

3 plies maple/pop/maple I imagine it sounds open and very vintage-y.


That could be a good reason why they cast almost all their shells… if so, give that a try?

If I remember correctly don’t you have a Renown you can swap rims temporarily with?
 

NouveauCliche

Senior Member
Canopus bolt tight leather washers might be a solution. That's their main purpose, tight bolts.

Drums that have a lot of shell resonance detune quickly. My solid shell toms detune easy. I'd say it's a good sign that your shells are contributing heavily to the tone, but it is still a pesky problem.

I'll look into those washers - it's really annoying.

They are vertainly *very* resonant - so that could be part of it...plus one of our stage shows I spend a lot of time riding the rack tom with this tribal beat thing and mallets - so it could just be from spending so much time on it.
 

bud7h4

Silver Member
If you have metal washers, try nylon ones.
 

NouveauCliche

Senior Member
Not a Gretsch guy, but don’t Brooks come with 302s?

That would be glaring to me initially, for having a tom that doesn’t hold.

With the things you mentioned, I’m surprised they came with those types of mounts for a heritage kit, or did you add those?

3 plies maple/pop/maple I imagine it sounds open and very vintage-y.


That could be a good reason why they cast almost all their shells… if so, give that a try?

If I remember correctly don’t you have a Renown you can swap rims temporarily with?

They do come with 302s.

They came with RIMs style mounts - but I moved to the renown style mounts - which I've known other people to do - it's a suspension mount that connects to two lugs...so it's like two lugs with pieces across the top and bottom of the lug - and the tom attaches to the arms with a centered mounting piece between the two lugs.

I'm almost guessing it's just the nature of being on a rack tom for like 1.5 hours a night with mallets for that show.
 

Stroman

Platinum Member
They do come with 302s.

They came with RIMs style mounts - but I moved to the renown style mounts - which I've known other people to do - it's a suspension mount that connects to two lugs...so it's like two lugs with pieces across the top and bottom of the lug - and the tom attaches to the arms with a centered mounting piece between the two lugs.

I'm almost guessing it's just the nature of being on a rack tom for like 1.5 hours a night with mallets for that show.
I have found mallets de-tune toms more quickly, as well. I don't know the exact reason, but I've had a similar result. It's worse when the toms are tuned lower, and not so bad when they're tuned higher, IME.
 

Justinhub2003

Silver Member
I do hope you find a simple resolution to this recurring annoyance, Nick. If all else fails, switch to Pearl. :giggle:
Funny thing is… my Tom’s stay in tune on my pearl kit but the bottom to claw hooks on my kick drum (one’s closest to the kick) seem to back out and will literally fall off the drum. It’s weird. I put Canopus leather washers on them but it didn’t help
 

C.M. Jones

Diamond Member
Funny thing is… my Tom’s stay in tune on my pearl kit but the bottom to claw hooks on my kick drum (one’s closest to the kick) seem to back out and will literally fall off the drum. It’s weird. I put Canopus leather washers on them but it didn’t help
Wacky. I've never had that problem. Do you play your bass heads ultra-loose? I like a little more tension on my bass than some players, so my claws stay nice and secure.
 

Justinhub2003

Silver Member
Wacky. I've never had that problem. Do you play your bass heads ultra-loose? I like a little more tension on my bass than some players, so my claws stay nice and secure.
Na I actually think I tighten them more than say the average bass drum tuning video on YouTube.



Every other lug is fine. But just the bottom 2 and really just the right side of the bottom is worse.

Ha it fell back off today but the kick still sounded good so i haven’t bothered to fix it yet
 

C.M. Jones

Diamond Member
Na I actually think I tighten them more than say the average bass drum tuning video on YouTube.



Every other lug is fine. But just the bottom 2 and really just the right side of the bottom is worse.

Ha it fell back off today but the kick still sounded good so i haven’t bothered to fix it yet
If you think there's a parts failure, contact the retailer. Pearl has a lifetime warranty on all hardware.
 

Justinhub2003

Silver Member
If you think there's a parts failure, contact the retailer. Pearl has a lifetime warranty on all hardware.
I’m gonna swap heads in a few days. Maybe it’s seated weird but I don’t think anything is faulty
 

NouveauCliche

Senior Member
I do hope you find a simple resolution to this recurring annoyance, Nick. If all else fails, switch to Pearl. :giggle:

I've been secretly lusting for a Masters Session Studio ECX BCX SST MPM Tennessee Select Music City Ambassador General Vice President Reference Custom Reserve Pures lately.
 

yammyfan

Senior Member
Not sure what's going on there, Nicholas. My Renowns with the 302 hoops and GTS mounts don't seem to detune at all. They have been frozen at the same tuning for several weeks despite being played every day. It's uncanny, truthfully.

Now, this is pretty out there but I will mention it because it touches on the "resonance" factor; my Renowns would detune slightly after a couple of weeks when I tuned the batter and resonant heads a 5th apart. I switched to tuning them a 4th apart a couple of months ago and that's when the super stability kicked in. They're slightly less resonant now but that's not a problem because the RN2s are some of the most resonant drums out there. They can afford to give up a little as they have tons to spare.

Anyway, it's a long shot but maybe tuning differently would help. You could keep the same overall pitches but change the relationship between batter and resonant heads to see if that makes a difference. Just a thought.
 
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NouveauCliche

Senior Member
Not sure what's going on there, Nicholas. My Renowns with the 302 hoops and GTS mounts don't seem to detune at all. They have been frozen at the same tuning for several weeks despite being played every day. It's uncanny, truthfully.

Now, this is pretty out there but I will mention it because it touches on the "resonance" factor; my Renowns would detune slightly after a couple of weeks when I tuned the batter and resonant heads a 5th apart. I switched to tuning them a 4th apart a couple of months ago and that's when the super stability kicked in. They're slightly less resonant now but that's not a problem because the RN2s are some of the most resonant drums on the market. They can afford to give up a little as they have tons to spare.

Anyway, it's a long shot but maybe tuning differently would help. You could keep the same overall pitches but change the relationship between batter and resonant heads to see if that makes a difference. Just a thought.


I have two shows the next couple nights that are just like straight up jazz/funk stuff - So I'll see how the tuning holds up in that context vs. the tom riding thing of the stage show.

I think that might be the culprit - a couple hours of making that drum resonate might just be what's doing it.
 

cbphoto

Diamond Member

C. Dave Run

Gold Member
This happens on my 13" floor. Pretty sure I'm catching the rim on it, the one rod closest to me is constantly detuning. It's just that one specific rod.

I tune everything before I play so it isnt an over time thing.
 
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