Double pedal question

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
They have cable remote hi hats. But I can't find much on a quick search of cable double bass drum pedals.

I have to wonder why a cable double pedal design didn't prevail over the bulky driveshaft design and it's inherent lag issues.

Plus a cable minus the drive shaft would free up valuable floor real estate, and be easier to deal with with no driveshaft assembly.

It seems like a better way to do a double pedal than drive shafts.

Thoughts?
 

paradiddle pete

Platinum Member
Yeah mounted on or right next to a hi hat pedal ! and one that drives 2 bass drums instead of one...and a trick throw off type tom muffler system would be cool too. Ace we should be on a think tank pay roll.yeah!
 
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MrPockets

Gold Member
I'm wondering it is is because the cable isn't strong enough to swing the pedal. I have shutter release cables for old film cameras and they can barely activate the shutter. I can't imagine a cable pushing a pedal.

There is also the extra engineering involved getting the cable extending to be reversed with pushing the pedal.
 

bud7h4

Silver Member
Didn't Wile E Coyote try this already? The flex in the cable would feel awful in the pedal. 😁

The inherent lag issue with driveshafts is due to companies making them cheaply. It's as if they consider them disposable. The design itself is really good. Trick and Axis shafts have zero lag. What I would like to see is driveshafts partially skeletonized to bring the mass down. This is commonly done in automotive, aircraft, firearms, just about anything mechanical where less weight is better.
 
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larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I'm wondering it is is because the cable isn't strong enough to swing the pedal. I have shutter release cables for old film cameras and they can barely activate the shutter. I can't imagine a cable pushing a pedal.

There is also the extra engineering involved getting the cable extending to be reversed with pushing the pedal.
I envision the slave pedal going down, which rotates a round pulley on the right side of the slave pedal. The cable is solidly attached to the bottom of that pulley, so when the pulley is rotated clockwise (and cable pulled), the other end of the cable would pull on and rotate a pulley on the main pedal counter-clockwise that's attached to just the slave beater. Half a turn rotation of the pulley tops. So there's no pushing, only pulling of the cable. Springs attached to the pulleys return the pulleys (and cable, slave footboard and slave beater) to their cocked position when the footboard is released, just like they do now. I think it's an easy to design system that would be an improvement on the existing double pedal design.
 
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MrPockets

Gold Member
I envision the slave pedal going down which rotates a round pulley on the side of the slave pedal. The cable is attached to the slave pulley, which when the pulley is rotated by the footboard pulling the cable, the other end of the cable would pullon and rotate a pulley on the main pedal that's attached to the slave beater. So there's no pushing, only pulling of the cable. The slave footboard rotates the pulley, which pulls the cable, which in turn rotates the pulley on the main pedal's to activate the slave beater. Springs attached to the pulleys return the pulleys and cable to it's original position. I think it's an easy to design system that would be an improvement on the existing double pedal design.

I think the current method is way cheaper to produce.
 

SYMBOLIC DEATH

Senior Member
With a cable there is movement when you push down on the pedal because the cable is flexible, which would increase the lag. This is just off the top of my head.
Look at your cable remote when you press down on the pedal there is some movement which affects the sensitivity.
I can remember an old double pedal, possibly the first ones available, that had a spring instead of a drive shaft. I'm sure Bermuda will be along shortly to give us the name of who made that pedal.
 

drumnut87

Well-known member
would feel sluggish and slow i'd imagine, and getting the rotation needed from a cable would be difficult unless there were some pulleys involved.
 

KEEF

Senior Member
Remote hats are at least a 'vertical' pull - struggling to visualise how the 'horizontal' link would work? :unsure:
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Remote hats are at least a 'vertical' pull - struggling to visualise how the 'horizontal' link would work? :unsure:
Horizontal or vertical motion isn't an issue with steel cable. It pulls in all directions. It's not fixed in place ike a driveshaft. A round pulley on the side of the right slave pedal post, actuated and rotated by the slave footboard being depressed, pulls the cable into the pulley and the cable wraps it's extra length around the pulley. The other end of the cable pulls on and rotates a companion round pulley on the main pedal, connected to the slave beater, which strikes the head, converting the up and down vertical motion of the slave footboard into a half circle rotating motion on the pulleys. It's an easy problem to solve. Springs return the cable and pulleys to the "ready" position when the footboard is released just like it does now.

I don't think there would be any play in the cable. Steel cable won't stretch from the force of a footpedal deppression, because the cable is free to move. This is all just a theory but I really think it would work and be cost effective as well. Steel aircraft cable is cheaper than machining, drilling and threading a driveshaft with U-joints. That's just an uneducated guess. There are other possible upsides too like less weight, possibly less manufacturing cost/time, more floor real estate, no assembly/disassembly and possibly smaller packaging.
 
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KEEF

Senior Member
A round pulley on the side of the slave pedal, rotated by the slave footboard being depressed, pulls on the cable and rotates a round pulley on the main pedal, converting the up and down vertical motion of the slave footboard into rotating motion on the pulley. It's an easy problem to solve.

I don't think there would be any play in the cable. Steel cable doesn't stretch that easily.
Aahh ok....i get it. If the slave pedal gets nudged inwards ,wouldn't the cable go slack though??
If the play isn't in the cable - how come remote hats lag so much? 🤷‍♂️
 
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larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Aahh ok....i get it. If the slave pedal gets nudged inwards ,wouldn't the cable go slack though??
If the play isn't in the cable - how come remote hats lag so much? 🤷‍♂️
The cable can't go slack. It's position depends on the position of the pulley. The cable has either spring tension, or spring tension and tension from the pedal being depressed. It's always taut no matter the position of the slave beater. If the whole footboard nudged forward, that would not rotate the pulley. The rotating pulleys are the only thing that can activate the cable.

I can't comment intelligently on cable remote hh lag issues as I never payed a cable remote hi hat.

If that is an issue, cable lag, then....nevermind lol.

It seems like it's worth trying.
 
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KEEF

Senior Member
Instead of direct drive or chain drive (for the beater) ,you could have cable drive too???
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Instead of direct drive or chain drive (for the beater) ,you could have cable drive too???
I'm just talking about a possibility for a different "slave beater actuating mechanism" on a double pedal that doesn't exist really. I'm just spitballin.

I'm not talking about re-designing the single pedal as it exists, if that's what you are implying.

It's all about a hopefully better alternative to the drive shaft between the main and slave pedal and re-claiming some valuable floor space.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
I don't think there would be any play in the cable. Steel cable won't stretch from the force of a footpedal deppression, because the cable is free to move. This is all just a theory but I really think it would work and be cost effective as well.
I'm not too sure about this. My wife's doberman weighs 65lb. She broke a 1500lb steel braided, plastic sheathed cable going after a dog that was messing with one of our little dogs. I am going to have to replace the cable with a chain soon. The plastic sheathing is all but cracked and destroyed, and the cable is starting to fray everywhere. I realize it's a different use of cable, but they do wear out.
 

SYMBOLIC DEATH

Senior Member
It could work, but adjusting the distance between the pedals would be a pain because of cable isn't too adjustable, but I'm sure there's a way to do it.
 
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