Does Anyone Actually Gig with A&F Kits and Snares?

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
Im barely old enough to remember when real estate prices weren’t completely stupid.
My grandparents paid a mere $12,000 for their house in the 1950s. My grandad passed away in the 1990s, and my grandmother remained in the house until she expired five years ago. My mom and aunt sold the property for almost $500,000! Needless to state, upticks in home prices have significantly outpaced increases in income. Many people who purchased homes fifty years ago wouldn't be able to afford those residences today.
 

Al Strange

Well-known member
Yes but the A&F sandwich cost 5X as much and is already moldy when you buy it.
We have this very issue at our motorway services in the UK...:mad: I don’t know guys, I can see both sides of the argument. Whilst these drums are not for me because of some of the issues highlighted above, these truly are niche drums for a niche market...I will say this: I enjoy @Justinhub2003’s posts with pics of his A&F snare drums and understand and respect that he enjoys owning and playing them. (y):)
 

Hewitt2

Senior Member
My grandparents paid a mere $12,000 for their house in the 1950s. My grandad passed away in the 1990s, and my grandmother remained in the house until she expired five years ago. My mom and aunt sold the property for almost $500,000! Needless to state, upticks in home prices have significantly outpaced increases in income. Many people who purchased homes fifty years ago wouldn't be able to afford those residences today.
I think homeowners' appetite to take on debt (and bank's willingness to provide it) has changed a lot from previous generations, especially given increasing housing prices which provides the underlying security.

Of course, this is the mentality that helped create the crash of a decade ago. It's funny how little we have learned and are setting ourselves up again for another potential massive market correction.
 

someguy01

Well-known member
My grandparents paid a mere $12,000 for their house in the 1950s. My grandad passed away in the 1990s, and my grandmother remained in the house until she expired five years ago. My mom and aunt sold the property for almost $500,000! Needless to state, upticks in home prices have significantly outpaced increases in income. Many people who purchased homes fifty years ago wouldn't be able to afford those residences today.
My parents paid $70k for our house in 1977. They sold in 2005 right before the market collapsed and got $449k. They bought a lot and had a home built in SC for $260k. Pretty good deal if you ask me.
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
It's funny how little we have learned and are setting ourselves up again for another potential massive market correction.
The inevitable cycle of human folly: We don't study the errors of history so that we can avoid repeating them. Instead, we use our hard-earned knowledge to screw up more profoundly in the future. Humankind can't seem to overcome itself.
 
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C.M. Jones

Well-known member
We have this very issue at our motorway services in the UK...:mad: I don’t know guys, I can see both sides of the argument. Whilst these drums are not for me because of some of the issues highlighted above, these truly are niche drums for a niche market...I will say this: I enjoy @Justinhub2003’s posts with pics of his A&F snare drums and understand and respect that he enjoys owning and playing them. (y):)
Always a judicious voice, Mr. Strange. A true credit to the forum.
 

Hewitt2

Senior Member
The inevitable cycle of human folly: We don't study the errors off history so that we can avoid repeating them. Instead, we use our hard-earned knowledge to screw up more profoundly in the future. Humankind can't seem to overcome itself.
Or a deliberate example of moral hazard - the banks learned that so long as they screw up spectacularly, they will have to be bailed out.

Little downside risk to amassing massive balance sheets of potential over-valued assets!
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
Even high-quality snares and kits from companies like Canopus have lower resale values compared to mainstream (ex:Ludwig) at same initial price point. Based on that, it would be folly to buy A&F as an investment. The market really is a small niche of buyers that want the distressed/ faux vintage look.
 

Hewitt2

Senior Member
Even high-quality snares and kits from companies like Canopus have lower resale values compared to mainstream (ex:Ludwig) at same initial price point. Based on that, it would be folly to buy A&F as an investment. The market really is a small niche of buyers that want the distressed/ faux vintage look.
Aging hipsters who obsess over the "rustic industrial" look, gaze longingly into their Restoration Hardware e-catalogue, and greedily sip their Starbucks Venti Macchiato.

What, that's not an entire market? :D
 

someguy01

Well-known member
Aging hipsters who obsess over the "rustic industrial" look, gaze longingly into their Restoration Hardware e-catalogue, and greedily sip their Starbucks Venti Macchiato.

What, that's not an entire market? :D
Hey now, it is an exploitable market. I make metal "yard art" and I age the raw steel with things like vinegar and Coca-Cola making that sweet desired patina and I easily separate silly rich white folks from their money to the tune of something like an 80% profit.
I see you A&F, well played.
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
It's a legit market and niche if consumers buy the product and it's sustainable. From majority of posts, it's not a market for many players; it's a niche market for a different demographic than the frequently gigging local player.
 

Lee-Bro

Senior Member
I don't fault A&F for their design or look. Variety is the spice of life and I hope they continue doing what they're doing long after were all gone.

That being said, even if things come with a lifetime guarantee, that doesn't mean one shouldn't take care not to build a product that its cosmetic treatment inevitably renders it designed to fail. There are ways to age steel and even chromed-steel parts that don't compromise the material. A lifetime guarantee is only good as long as the company is around. If the parts fail due to the "aging treatment" and there isn't a company available to fix them, it's up to the owner to find a solution.

;) As once was said:

Tommy: Ted, why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.
Ted Nelson: Go on, I'm listening.
Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to fell all warm and toasty inside.
Ted Nelson: Yeah, makes a man feel good.
Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?
Ted Nelson: What's your point?
Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy, well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser and your daughter's knocked up, I seen it a hundred times.
Ted Nelson: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?
Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.


All that being said, I'm getting me some chicken wings.
 
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Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
I don't fault A&F for their design or look. Variety is the spice of life and I hope they continue doing what they're doing long after were all gone.

That being said, even if things come with a lifetime guarantee, that doesn't mean one shouldn't take care not to build a product that its cosmetic treatment inevitably renders it designed to fail. There are ways to age steel and even chromed-steel parts that don't compromise the material. A lifetime guarantee is only good as long as the company is around. If the parts fail due to the "aging treatment" and their isn't a company available to fix them, it's up to the owner to find a solution.

;) As once was said:

Tommy: Ted, why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.
Ted Nelson: Go on, I'm listening.
Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to fell all warm and toasty inside.
Ted Nelson: Yeah, makes a man feel good.
Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?
Ted Nelson: What's your point?
Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy, well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser and your daughter's knocked up, I seen it a hundred times.
Ted Nelson: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?
Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.


All that being said, I'm getting me some chicken wings.
Tommy Boy reference FTW!
 

Justinhub2003

Well-known member
A lot of old men telling people to get off their lawn in this thread.


Some of you guys act like the major brands don’t have tons of quality issues of their own.

I bought a $800 1of 55 made Ludwig Exotic Avodire snare and not one, but 4 tension rods were bent on this rare snare. It shipped with a Leather snare bag, that had a leather patch on it. The entire first run of these patches were literally glued on. Ludwig had to replace it and have new bags

The original spring on my 700 dollar tama dyna sync broke with medium tension after 10 days

My Sonor Double Tom stripped out the very first time I tightened it down,

The lug on my old Tama kit had to be replaced at least 4x times because the metal cracked in half right where I rim shot


All drum makers have quality issues. I expect it. But what makes up for a faulty product is great customer service and repair
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
A lot of old men telling people to get off their lawn in this thread.


Some of you guys act like the major brands don’t have tons of quality issues of their own.

I bought a $800 1of 55 made Ludwig Exotic Avodire snare and not one, but 4 tension rods were bent on this rare snare. It shipped with a Leather snare bag, that had a leather patch on it. The entire first run of these patches were literally glued on. Ludwig had to replace it and have new bags

The original spring on my 700 dollar tama dyna sync broke with medium tension after 10 days

My Sonor Double Tom stripped out the very first time I tightened it down,

The lug on my old Tama kit had to be replaced at least 4x times because the metal cracked in half right where I rim shot


All drum makers have quality issues. I expect it. But what makes up for a faulty product is great customer service and repair
Ludwig in particular is known for quality issues. And those Dyna Sync springs too. Good points.
 

Steady Freddy

Pioneer Member
My gig-ability question had more to do with the claw hook tension rods than the finishes. How well they hold tune if you're gigging a lot and playing for 3-4 hours per gig. A lot of modern instruments care for holding tune and market this feature as an attribute. A&F would seem to fail in that regard. Entire industry migrated away from claw hooks for any drum except kick. But I don't do rimshots with my kick.
I've been playing them around a year now and have never had a tension rod back out. I have thick ones, thin ones, wood ones, Best snares I've ever played. The company is expanding rapidly and will be around for a long time, The heavy shelled snares are the most bullet proof drums I've ever seen.
 

Trigger

Senior Member
All that said, I only own 2 A&F drums. Likely never own one of their kits.

They’re not even my top 5 of favorite brands in drums.

I’m just defending them because I love to see small startups in the drum industry survive. Especially ones who hand make every thing out of USA sourced material
I never said their quality was bad. I just said that their looks are very "trendy" now, and what is on trend now will look terrible in 15 years.
 
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