Do most drummers hate metal ? as much as normal popheads? ( extreme metal)

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
Has anybody ever done a DCI show of any major metal band songs? Sorry, random question

I know people have used Dream Theater, Symphony X and Metallica stuff...surprisingly, I don't think anyone has used Rush...

it has usually been Open Class groups (equal to our Class A back in the day)...a lot of the younger groups go a little more "out on a limb" in show selections
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
I know people have used Dream Theater, Symphony X and Metallica stuff...surprisingly, I don't think anyone has used Rush...

it has usually been Open Class groups (equal to our Class A back in the day)...a lot of the younger groups go a little more "out on a limb" in show selections

Yeah, I figured none of the top World Class corps had the balls lol.
 

TJK

Well-known member
What would be the cause of all the undeserving hate towards metal? Metal when one looks at it is not only noise but has a certain technicality to it , and it does take a while to fully appreciate the genius of metal. Along with that it takes sheer endurance and technique in all the instruments in metal , not forgoing the vocals. Do drummers from different genres value metal? Or look at it as a source of inspiration? Also do most drummers agree metal has the fastest drumming with the most power and endurance?

ps i know i havent phrased this question properly , but this is all i can think of right now , Please humour my mistakes or word errors
I am in awe of the technique, but I just can’t listen to the extreme stuff.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
I can't get into metal, vocals and guitar sound for me is impossible to digest. Drums are incredible... But maybe it just takes time to get into it. The other day I put on Coltrane's 'Love supreme', and at first glance it could be called the worst typical jazz noodling that turns people off, but once you get it it's great!

to this day, I feel this way about ALL Coltrane. I just can't get into him...and jazz was/is my "first love" music genre...

Yeah, I figured none of the top World Class corps had the balls lol.

yeah...metal is hard to replicate w/o the distorted guitar sound. A lot of the BOA high school bands have done it with more success b/c they are allowed to have guitars...and guitars are allowed in DCI, but have not really drifted into the World Class design medium yet...
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
to this day, I feel this way about ALL Coltrane. I just can't get into him...and jazz was/is my "first love" music genre...



yeah...metal is hard to replicate w/o the distorted guitar sound. A lot of the BOA high school bands have done it with more success b/c they are allowed to have guitars...and guitars are allowed in DCI, but have not really drifted into the World Class design medium yet...

I’d have thought that trombones would be a good stand-in for electric guitar. Guess not.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
I’d have thought that trombones would be a good stand-in for electric guitar. Guess not.

they are in range - as well as baritones/euphoniums/ and tubas, but it is hard to replicate the texture of distortion...and to me, that is what gives metal part of it's aggression

my marching band is actually using Silent Lucidity by Queensryche this year, and the marimba scoring is replicating the acoustic guitar part pretty well ( I know how to play the guitar part, so that helped ;) ) ; we have a synth covering the string parts from Michael Kamans orchestral score for the original, and trombone is actually covering the vocals as a solo

where it gets "louder" we have managed to replicate the fullness of the guitar parts with 4 mallet chording on the marimbas, and the chording chosen in the low brass...it is pretty cool so far...
 

SVBJECT

Well-known member
No offence @Arjun Diwaker I feel like your view on metal - references to satanism etc is dated, and citing attempted lynchings in Russia is just Russia being Russia in their nationalist/conservative politics, heavily linked to the Orthodox church., the Russian Dream (not called that but to equate to the American Dream) is that Russia is the last bearers of the torch of Christian values, the west has fallen to decadence and liberalism and Russia is the Second Rome of Eurasia. Its fucking nuts. The reasons have nothing to do really with metal as such, so much as stamping down on free-thinking in a church-supported autocratic state, that reinforces love-of-country with traditional, and orthodox church, values. In England we're so Athiest of Agnostic now, no one cares if you were a anti-christian blasphemous shirt. In the Vatican they would, (Cradle of Filth got arrested for driving through the Vatican in their "Jesus is a c....." t-shirt) and in Russia they do.

Rammstein got in trouble when the two male guitarists kissed on stage under a rainbow flag while in Moscow, I suspect you don't class Rammstein as metal though, as they don't play at 300+bpm. Batushka (БАТЮШКА) is a whole band dedicated to mocking the orthodox church - a far more worthy target for anti-established religion than the overdone catholic church and they do it incredibly, live shows set up as a service, the lyrics all russian prayers twisted to be from the devils perspective or similar. Behemoth were arrested in Russia a few years back. It's about control and not particularly about the targets, the targets just make themselves that - an easy target to publicly crucify to promote a rigid agenda.

The view of metal and satanism in the west is an old matter that is equatable with the trope of hiphop getting you into gangs and drugs. If a hiphop drummer on here made a thread about how hated hiphop is, I'd give much the same response - any music will attract "haters" and haters will use whatever they can against a genre (or anything for that matter). But despite again you probably not seeing them as 'metal' - it was KISS who took the real brunt of that I believe - because they brought it on themselves. Deliberately. It made them hella rich. Manson did the same. metal is said to encourage satanism - because metal bands want to scare/worry/concern the parents. It's kinda the point for a lot of the scene.

Haters of Coldplay think know they're bland boring and dull. Presumably the lovers like them for these reasons, although perhaps they would rephrase it as soothing, calming and familiar. I wouldn't therefore critique coldplay using hateful adjectives as "too intense" because no one would know what I meant - even if I meant too intensely boring. I use the weapons given to me - they're totally bland and tedious.
With metal; angry, violent or hateful lyrics that should be seen with a degree of metaphor or catharsis can equally be seen at face value - hateful, violent and angry. Its easy to see why people would hate metal because of this - but then that's why we love it, no? Because it's difficult to swallow. It's like loving your food xxxxx hot, once you get into it its kinda addictive and you keep wanting to push that sensual limit.

I think it's also worth noting that metal drumming was started by Bill Ward. He was a jazz drummer.
The biggest new wave of metal in my lifetime was the Nu Metal movement of the mid/late 90s. The drummer behind that was David Silveria, who brought elements of funk and hiphop.
One of my favourite metal drummers - and I bet you'll disagree - but Raymond Herrera the original Fear Factory drummer. Seamless techno-inspired extreme(ish) metal drumming.
And this applies to all genres, but ultimately bringing in taste from outside the niche is one of the possible routes to being a better drummer. I'm impressed with your speed videos, but all your output that I've seen, seems a die-hard crusade to prove your style of music is secretly loved by its supposed haters and is actually therefore the best, and by extension any fusion is a dilution, ergo your prowess solely in this niche of drumming can be seen as prowess in the only [worthwhile] niche of drumming.
 

Arjun Diwaker

Well-known member
No offence @Arjun Diwaker I feel like your view on metal - references to satanism etc is dated, and citing attempted lynchings in Russia is just Russia being Russia in their nationalist/conservative politics, heavily linked to the Orthodox church., the Russian Dream (not called that but to equate to the American Dream) is that Russia is the last bearers of the torch of Christian values, the west has fallen to decadence and liberalism and Russia is the Second Rome of Eurasia. Its fucking nuts. The reasons have nothing to do really with metal as such, so much as stamping down on free-thinking in a church-supported autocratic state, that reinforces love-of-country with traditional, and orthodox church, values. In England we're so Athiest of Agnostic now, no one cares if you were a anti-christian blasphemous shirt. In the Vatican they would, (Cradle of Filth got arrested for driving through the Vatican in their "Jesus is a c....." t-shirt) and in Russia they do.

Rammstein got in trouble when the two male guitarists kissed on stage under a rainbow flag while in Moscow, I suspect you don't class Rammstein as metal though, as they don't play at 300+bpm. Batushka (БАТЮШКА) is a whole band dedicated to mocking the orthodox church - a far more worthy target for anti-established religion than the overdone catholic church and they do it incredibly, live shows set up as a service, the lyrics all russian prayers twisted to be from the devils perspective or similar. Behemoth were arrested in Russia a few years back. It's about control and not particularly about the targets, the targets just make themselves that - an easy target to publicly crucify to promote a rigid agenda.

The view of metal and satanism in the west is an old matter that is equatable with the trope of hiphop getting you into gangs and drugs. If a hiphop drummer on here made a thread about how hated hiphop is, I'd give much the same response - any music will attract "haters" and haters will use whatever they can against a genre (or anything for that matter). But despite again you probably not seeing them as 'metal' - it was KISS who took the real brunt of that I believe - because they brought it on themselves. Deliberately. It made them hella rich. Manson did the same. metal is said to encourage satanism - because metal bands want to scare/worry/concern the parents. It's kinda the point for a lot of the scene.

Haters of Coldplay think know they're bland boring and dull. Presumably the lovers like them for these reasons, although perhaps they would rephrase it as soothing, calming and familiar. I wouldn't therefore critique coldplay using hateful adjectives as "too intense" because no one would know what I meant - even if I meant too intensely boring. I use the weapons given to me - they're totally bland and tedious.
With metal; angry, violent or hateful lyrics that should be seen with a degree of metaphor or catharsis can equally be seen at face value - hateful, violent and angry. Its easy to see why people would hate metal because of this - but then that's why we love it, no? Because it's difficult to swallow. It's like loving your food xxxxx hot, once you get into it its kinda addictive and you keep wanting to push that sensual limit.

I think it's also worth noting that metal drumming was started by Bill Ward. He was a jazz drummer.
The biggest new wave of metal in my lifetime was the Nu Metal movement of the mid/late 90s. The drummer behind that was David Silveria, who brought elements of funk and hiphop.
One of my favourite metal drummers - and I bet you'll disagree - but Raymond Herrera the original Fear Factory drummer. Seamless techno-inspired extreme(ish) metal drumming.
And this applies to all genres, but ultimately bringing in taste from outside the niche is one of the possible routes to being a better drummer. I'm impressed with your speed videos, but all your output that I've seen, seems a die-hard crusade to prove your style of music is secretly loved by its supposed haters and is actually therefore the best, and by extension any fusion is a dilution, ergo your prowess solely in this niche of drumming can be seen as prowess in the only [worthwhile] niche of drumming.
This response , truly gives a really really deep insight onto the topic. I have to thank you for that. Well what you guessed about me is surprisingly true , i just cant get out of the mindset , that metal deserves respect and cant be just swished away by some numbskull , who only lives for one genre and doesnt even know the core points behind that genre!! Yes i have been looking into my view on other genres , and i find improvising in metal with elements from other genres , is much more to my taste than pure speed ever is. Metal is not the best , music is in its entirety. Also i actually love fusion , bringing funk , jazz , stuff etc elements to death metal as well as exporting metal elements to other genres. Plus ur writing is really good stuff. Ever try writing a book on philosophy?
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
I'm not a fan of Metal, but a big fan of drumming and talent. I had a great time meeting and watching Derek Roddy here locally. Down to earth guy and full of talent.
 

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GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
I get the hate from other non-metal musicians mostly...and the crowd that just doesn't know about it.

usually younger <-- people that hate anything they don't understand; also people looking for attention via confrontation...like the WHOLE world of Insta-Social Media

and younger means mentally in this case...not necessarily physical...I know a lot of "young" 55 year olds
I may have mentioned this earlier, but part of the problem is the use of the words hate and hater. It seems younger folks or folks trying to be hip, will call you a "hater" just for having a differing opinion. They completely skip over the feeling of dislike. It just seems cool to use the words, hate and hater. And I "hate" that.
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
I guess some people are really haters to genres of music, drummers , ideologies, and about anything -it is a human trait and really a problem of the hater- since all that is hated thrives no matter what anyone thinks of it. I understand that I use to be a ball buster and it eventually made me angry (almost got me fired). But rockers have often played on dark themes (Alice Cooper, etc) ,taboo, rebellion against the machine- be it war, govt, some injustice cause that has a marketing appeal. A lot of music isn’t so much lyrics but the vibe and energy- music can appeal to any generation,emotional state. Happy, sad, angry, etc. and drive dance or just standing in bliss. The beauty of any music is in the ear of the beholder. What if music had no diversity and was monolithic never changing or evolving - just hundreds of thousands of years of the same? I bet everyone would hate music ROFL- reminds me of The Martian movie.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
It's too easy to just be dismissive and say "I hate that". But do you really? In order to truly hate something, dont you have to love it first, or at least try to?
 

rhumbagirl

Senior Member
It's too easy to just be dismissive and say "I hate that". But do you really? In order to truly hate something, dont you have to love it first, or at least try to?
I think part of that phrase is simply pay back for impregnating the music with values of hate - rebellion, violence, blood, death.
 

Arjun Diwaker

Well-known member
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I think part of that phrase is simply pay back for impregnating the music with values of hate - rebellion, violence, blood, death
personally for some reason i cant get enough of the lyrics , i mean if u are a metalhead who just started listening u can barely make out stuff , even if u are experienced , u still have a tough time making out stuff , since the lyrics are so gorey and elaborate at the same time. I mean they talk about torture so casually and they even describe it so nonchalantly. In a pop or rap song if it was free style they would probaly go , torture is bad , torture hurts , in a metal songs it goes like this. Abysmal terror seething from the pits of chaos , the moans of the eternally damned be vanquished under the ocean of flaggelation. I have no clue how this is related to this post , but i just felt like writing lol.
 

rhumbagirl

Senior Member
Didn't metal grow out of a movement of rebellion? In which case it's based on the notion of negative reinforcement. Wanna get back at your parents for locking you in your room on a Friday night? Wanna scare the shit out of the Jehovah witnesses? Or just wanna give the world a jolt, that not everyone is doing OKAY, not everyone is HAVING A NICE DAY!
 

Hewitt2

Senior Member
Didn't metal grow out of a movement of rebellion?

Same goes for bebop, punk, fusion, rock & roll, grunge, etc. Pretty much all genres and sub-genres are a reaction and giant “F*** you” to what came before. That’s the nature of evolution.

Reading some of the comments above decrying the aesthetics of metal (noise, ridiculous speed, lack of melody, etc.) isn’t too dissimilar to what we would have read for anyone reacting to the newfangled genres of prior eras.

With 50 years of evolution under its belt, Metal itself has now become such a wide-ranging and nearly meaningless term given the diversity of music it accommodates. Dismissing the entire metal genre because you don’t like screamo vocals is much like saying you don’t like jazz because you’re not into swing.
 

rhumbagirl

Senior Member
Granted the physical aspect of head banging and body surfing of metal heads likely reduces stress, studies have shown the simple act of listening to jazz has a positive effect on health, thereby putting it in the positive reinforcement end of the spectrum:

"THETA brain waves (4-8 hertz): Listening to the distinctive syncopation of some jazz can bring about theta brain waves, the most highly creative brain wave. They inspire new insights and solutions to unresolved problems ("Eureka!" moments)."

 

Mastiff

Senior Member
With 50 years of evolution under its belt, Metal itself has now become such a wide-ranging and nearly meaningless term given the diversity of music it accommodates. Dismissing the entire metal genre because you don’t like screamo vocals is much like saying you don’t like jazz because you’re not into swing.

I was about to make a similar comment. There are many subgenres of metal that have nothing to do with max speed, growl vocals, hateful lyrics or continuous streams of double bass. I listen predominantly to metal and don't enjoy any of these things. Well, I guess some of what I like has a lot of double bass, but seldom the continuous flurry at 200 bpm for a whole song.
 
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