Do most drummers hate metal ? as much as normal popheads? ( extreme metal)

petrez

Senior Member
I don't know about most drummers I guess, but I definately felt "left out" on some occations, talking to drummers of other genres if they know I'm mainly a metal drummer. But I guess that's the name of the game when you specialize in a style that to a lot of people out there is considered extreme. But I don't care, I got my own crowd if I want to discuss metal and metal drumming. I do respect other peoples/drummers music style though, it's just that nothing I've ever heard has given me the same chills and amazement as a great metal song. I'm mostly into the more melodic side of metal though, thrash/heavy/progressive. A quick link for the guys here not mainly into metal, some very groovy playing here (for metal) . Might not be what you consider a typical metal song though, but it is definately worth a listen. Shows that it isn't all about screaming vocals and aggressiveness. I quickly lose interest too if that is the main focus.
 
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mikyok

Platinum Member
Don't hate metal drummers at all. Feel sorry for them......the ones who can play that is! Takes good technique and stamina to do it properly.

They have to compete with triggers and drum programming software taking their place. No thanks!
 

SharkSandwich

Junior Member
"up and coming"??? Maybe compared to Black Sabbath, sure. :)
Ya....I heard they've been a band for decades. I guess they just feel "up and coming" to me. :) I'm stoked to see them at Aftershock!
 

Rotarded

Senior Member
I don't "hate" metal, or metal drumming, Modern metal just does nothing for me.

I lump blast beat metal drumming in with DCI. To me it is just an assault of incredibly fast click noises. I have great respect at the practice and skill involved in the execution of both, but my interest in drumming/drummers is in the technicality and nuance involved in making different sounds and phrases, utilizing every portion of the drum/cymbal/kit. This adds another layer, and even emotion to a song, that's not just a frantic beat. Listen to Manu Katche and you'll understand me.....
 
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nicholasBR

Well-known member
Also do most drummers agree metal has the fastest drumming with the most power and endurance?
Metal drumming to me always meant players like Les Binks, Dave Lombardo, Bill Ward, Vinnie Appice, Nicke Andersson, Cozy Powell, Clive Burr/ Nicko McBrain, Alex Van Halen, Tommy Aldridge, etc.

The "extreme" metal drumming acrobatics stuff that sounds like a type-writer is a later niche phenomenon. It rarely actually drives the music. It just kind of sits underneath whirring away. The problem is exacerbated by the horrible production that's routinely used for the last 15/20 years or so.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Platinum Member
I think metal belongs to certain generations, just like every generation has it's preferred music.

One day when all the death metal players are grandparents, they will most likely berate the newest latest music trend too.

It's the cycle of life

and it will probably be the metaL of the day....

my students, who are metal heads, don't consider Slayer, Iron Maiden, Antrhax, Ratt, Poison, Sevendust, Tool, Pantera metal...they tell me that it is "old people music"...to them metal is the current electronic/hip-hop/hardcore infused stuff...the super fast, computer generated super technical stuff - which I also really like some of...
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Platinum Member
The scary thing about metal and similar types is that some people actually believe in the weird and twisted stuff.

I stabbed him in they eye
And sucked out its juice
The prize for the victor
Die die die, never ever a truce

Drive faster
Run them over
A minute without another kill
Is a wasted one

or were they just singing Carpenter’s music with the weird possessed guy voice over blast beats?

same thing with pop and rap...honestly, to a much greater extent from what I see in modern mainstream America and beyond....
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Platinum Member
I only really ever experience "hate" for metal in non-drum set percussion circles like orchestral/wind band

and honestly, I hear more metal and rock drummers hate on jazz and non-drumset percussion

sort of weird.

I grew up deeply involved in both worlds and never saw why there was such hate...other than plain old ignorance. When I am playing in my community wind band, I am using A TON of the elements I have been developing playing metal and punk...and when I am playing prog metal, I use TONS of elements from playing tymps and xylophone in wind band

percussion is not a "mutually exclusive" activity...unless you let it be.

the 20 year old me would have definitely had a more anti pop and computer generated music attitude...and I still do not find anything in those genres interesting to listen to for longer than a minute, but like many have said about metal...I don't hate it...I DO hate a lot of the shallow negativity that the lyrics and imagery fosters, but I also hate that about hair metal, street punk/jock core, and nu metal
 

calan

Silver Member
Metal when one looks at it is not only noise but has a certain technicality to it , and it does take a while to fully appreciate the genius of metal.
So, this comes off... not great. There is a another point further below which will probably circle back into this, but metal is a fairly broad genre. Some of it is primitive and rudimentary. Some of it is pretty basic, lazy, and decidedly non genius.
I think metal belongs to certain generations, just like every generation has it's preferred music.

One day when all the death metal players are grandparents, they will most likely berate the newest latest music trend too.
There are likely many death metal grandpas already. Consider that there were actual adults playing material that would probably still pass the death metal litmus in the early 90s, it's more probable than not.
I think it's classified as death metal that I despise with the low graspy vocals that ruins a perfectly good metal song to where I just end up listening to the music and drummer which are usually really good. Put a really good rock singer in it's place and the difference would be astronomical for me.
This type of stuff exists. Without excessively splitting hairs and going too far down the subgenre rabbit hole, Power Metal largely fits that description.

even at 200 bpm it was a full body workout? My apologies if i offend you , but to me it seems like one does a full body workout at tempos exceeding 280 and going towards 320 . Single stroke double bass is probable till 300 while using the finger technique it is probable around 350 bpm. Me playing around 5 belphegor or nile songs in a row would be tiring but modern metal drummers have the endurance to play around 20 - 30 songs in a row if needed
There's a remarkable difference between a bar of quarter notes and sixteenth notes at say, 4/4 time at 300 bpm. Knowing the nuance and being able to communicate it effectively is important. Furthermore, playing faster doesn't necessarily mean more energy is being used. There's a point at which it becomes as much or more about controlling momentum and rebound than it is pushing a tip onto a head or cymbal.

I've seen plenty of the ultrafast players that hardly break a sweat. Some of that is conditioning, but some of it is because in order to play that consistently fast, you're utilizing more wrist and finger technique (or ankle/toe) than you are the macro motions.
I'm a metal guy yet I only like maybe 1% of it. The rest either all sounds too much the same (and increasingly so) , or is boring, or just not very good. ( I feel this way about just about every genre though.)
The drumming usually lacks dynamics, and even much of the technical stuff is just fast single strokes.
Right. I feel like people lose sight that there is more bad art than good, and that's very much not exclusive to metal, or even music. Even among the best musicians, it's rare that anybody creates great material exclusively, and that's fine. Some of the finest players I know (genre notwithstanding) haven't penned a song that I'm actually going to listen to beyond an exercise.
Nothing shows your skills like being able to wander genres and still kill it (which you know he would if he went metal). Not a drummer, but Alex Skolnick went from metal to a jazz project. It can be done, I tells ya!
This is probably more common among metal players than expected, it would seem. I doubt that there is a corner of the world of music that hasn't been appropriated for use in a metal context, and being able to actual play that stuff well enough to appropriate it is part and parcel. More specifically, there's a lot of players who can make their way fairly seamlessly between Metal and Fusion, and there is plenty of overlap between the two genres in the contemporary setting in terms of chops or motifs.

To offer an anecdote of my own, I got quite a few complements on my shuffles when I was doing the blues jam thing in my late 20s, and the "especially for your age" caveat was often thrown in for good measure. Well, I certainly didn't spend a lot of time practicing my shuffles, nor did I listen to a lot of blues. I'm gonna guess that a lot of the work I put into blast beats was very transferrable to shuffles.
and it will probably be the metaL of the day....

my students, who are metal heads, don't consider Slayer, Iron Maiden, Antrhax, Ratt, Poison, Sevendust, Tool, Pantera metal...they tell me that it is "old people music"...to them metal is the current electronic/hip-hop/hardcore infused stuff...the super fast, computer generated super technical stuff - which I also really like some of...
Yeah, that stuff will always be very much generational. I'm in the age group where some of that list is firmly metal in my perception, and some of it is just rock (perhaps even classic rock)
Maybe the most critical people of metal are metal fans.
This is probably the closest thing to the truth to be read in this topic.

Addendum:
I listen to a lot of metal, although hardly exclusively (Spotify tells me my top 10 artists of the past month are Future Islands, Deftones, LCD Soundsystem, Russian Circles, Charley Crockett, Satyricon, Alamaailman Vasarat, Neurosis, Manes, and Vu, if that offers any insight).

To more accurately answer the question as initially asked: No, I don't think most drummers hate metal. I'd probably even hazard that there are a disproportionately large amount of drummers that play metal. Metal is similar to Jazz into that it's quite the players genre.

More abstractly, I don't think there's any particular overarching hate or animus towards metal drummers on this forum, or at large. If there's anything, there's ignorance towards what metal/metal drumming is, but that's all shaped by experience and perspective, so people will always not be landing in quite the same spaces.

Metal can be like Porn: you can't always delineate exactly what is on paper, but you know it when you see it.
 
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someguy01

Gold Member
Oh look, it's Stanton Moore:
Oh look, it's Vinnie Colaiuta:
Oh look, it's Kenny G:
While he doesn't play with them live, Stanton also recorded all the drums for Street Sweeper Social Club.
I am big fan of his. Love his ability to play pretty much anything.


And that is the cleanest porto-potty I have ever seen. Must be brand new, there's no graffiti.
 

someguy01

Gold Member
For the "haters", watch this entire video.
 

drumhedd

Senior Member
even at 200 bpm it was a full body workout? My apologies if i offend you , but to me it seems like one does a full body workout at tempos exceeding 280 and going towards 320 . Single stroke double bass is probable till 300 while using the finger technique it is probable around 350 bpm. Me playing around 5 belphegor or nile songs in a row would be tiring but modern metal drummers have the endurance to play around 20 - 30 songs in a row if needed
It was a full body workout playing at the volume I play... I'm a very heavy hitter and use thick sticks. Even at 200bpm every snare hit was a rimshot, every kick stroke was full-velocity, heel-up. I also didn't use any muffling on the kit except for a thin, single layer towel at the bottom of the kick drums, meaning to get the punchy attack out of the drum I needed to cut through the overtones, I actually had to hit it hard.

Also, every body is different - for some people, a moderate jog over a long distance is enough to get their heart rate up. Others just need to sprint much faster over a short distance to achieve the same effect.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
For the "haters", watch this entire video.
Wow, it was so nice to not get yelled at by some amped up individual trying to sell me their view on something. That was refreshing, as is his view on the subject.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Platinum Member
While he doesn't play with them live, Stanton also recorded all the drums for Street Sweeper Social Club.
I am big fan of his. Love his ability to play pretty much anything.


And that is the cleanest porto-potty I have ever seen. Must be brand new, there's no graffiti.

he actually did play with them live on that tour...I saw them!
 

s1212z

Drum Expert
There is a lot more crossover and interesting sub-genres that I'm still getting familiar with metal. You can listen to Lombardo play with John Zorn where Zorn seems like the more extreme entity in the band. Dan Weiss slays jazz among many other things but is at home with doom metal Bloody Panda. Someone like Gene Hoglan has so many creative ideas on the kit, how could anyone not get inspired? Tony was a metal fan and was leaning towards it before his death, he proved long ago that jazz snobbery is BS and that if you just open your ears, all sorts of creative artistic inspiration can come your way. I recall he got alot push back for Emergency! but listening now, it's pushing that edge of intensity that is almost metal-esq before there was even such a term.
 

Hewitt2

Senior Member
Absolutely. A lot of early 70s fusion a la mahavishnu, billy cobham, lifetime, miles, is very heavy. High BPM, distorted guitars, double bass drumming, technical acrobatics.

While Black Sabbath often wears the mantle of the first true metal band I feel that fusion better anticipated where metal ultimately went with thrash and beyond…
 

MG1127

Well-known member
If you can't at least appreciate guys like Dave Lombardo, Charlie Benante, Nick Menza, Brann Dailor, Vinnie Paul, Nicko McBrain, Igor Cavalera, George Kollias, The Rev, Phil Taylor, Thomas Haake, Perry Strictland, Andy Galeon etc etc etc etc .... you are probably just a closed minded person who simply doesn't have a very good understanding of the instrument.
 

Ransan

Senior Member
As a metal fan, I think it’s a great but wide genre. I enjoy listening to all types, and especially the drums.

I grew up on thrash as my gateway, Slayer, Sepultura, Overkill, Tendencies, etc…

But to drum it, it’s pretty intense and can take a toll especially on older folks.
I can even say these days, I don’t so much enjoy blasting some metal songs. Always thinking of breaking a cymbal, head, stick, or bone lol.
Physically, it’s not a sustainable foundation, especially drummers that kill with speed and force.
Add 20-25 years down the road, and the same band takes it down a couple of notches, it’s easily recognized by fans.

Saying that, progressive metal, what the hell? It’s almost impossible to cover or takes a master effort.

What are we supposed to do to gain this type of proficiency?
Do drummers take the Muddy Waters pact then migrate to prog-metal?

I can see how this style is polarized.

 

wraub

Silver Member
I learned a long time ago to not judge music or musicians by genre- Many players with music school hours and diplomas are touring in country and pop and metal bands, because they typically are just professionals doing the job. The jobs need players that can do the jobs, and players with skills get the jobs, regardless of genre, because they want to work as a musician, which they trained for. Some may have favorite things to play, and different skills, but the ones I've met just want to get paid to play music.


Also, I'm glad I was raised to assess and appraise- to check something before I decide its value to me. I've been able to find music and musicians I appreciate because I like what I hear, not because of a genre label as confining as any other.

And, about metal? Personally, I think cymbals wouldn't sound the same without it. ;)
 
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