Do most drummers hate metal ? as much as normal popheads? ( extreme metal)

calan

Silver Member
I think the issue is - it's fit to purpose. I wouldn't deny that it is made well to fit that purpose, but if its purpose is sell a million and be forgotten, then the focus is on that, and not on musicality or anything else. That's fine, and hard enough and takes talent, but its a different set of talents to playing an instrument to a high standard, or producing amazingly, or DJing well. It's a writing talent, but based on what you think others want to hear rather than expressing yourself, and therein lies the problem. It has to be shallow to appeal more generally.

It's a craft. It's about making a commodity, about making a product. It's a skill honed over countless hours and repeated attempts.

And that's great. I respect the skill of a highly practiced mason, but perfectly square cinder block buildings aren't necessarily works of art.
 

Arjun Diwaker

Well-known member
I know people rip on pop music, but I will say it straight out, try to write some yourself and post it on YouTube. It is freakin hard and just because something is popular doesn't mean that it is inherently poor quality. I think some of the modern music is brilliant, much isn't, but never throw the baby out with the bathwater as they say.
well , it is quite tough really , but try writing a technical death metal song or a prog metal song , then comes the actual challenge , or compose a piece for the opera? pop music is electronically enhanced too much for my liking, and there is no spirit to the music and no fraternity like there is wiht metal , arguably that stems from teh fact that metal isnt that well known but i digress.
 

Arjun Diwaker

Well-known member
I feel strongly , that any person who can present pop in a way the audience wants to hear it will be the next pop super star even if that person has no training previously. Metal is not liek that , metal takes hours of dedication and suffering ( in a good way) to make it to a stage where you can play what comes on your mind. Whereas for pop all you need are catchy vocals and a generic backing track.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
I know this isnt supposed to be a hate forum , and i am apologizing for my comment right now , but im still gonna say it , I despise modern teenagers with no talent who go out in the marketed hip hop industry and make a big name with the most un imaginative and purely generic songs you have ever heard. I mean for an example if you look at bhad babie , and look at her history , she did go up on the doctor phil show and i believe she did try to use the shows influence to give her a career in rapping and the fashion industry , but that doesnt make up for the fact that her music has no musicality in it. Im gonna apologize once again if for this comment and i do not mean to offend anyone personally.

you are allowed to have opinions, and if you don't like something - as long as it is justified, you can say it

I don't know who you are talking about above, but I feel like the standard for quality has definitely dropped - been diluted.

Part of that is b/c I am old. Part is b/c I am a band director for a living, and am used to critiquing musical quality against certain standards. Part of it is b/c I grew up in the underground punk and metal scenes when I was young, and already had a skewed view of mainstream anything...

🚧🚧 OPINION ALERT!!! 🚧🚧

I just feel like mainstream anything has always been filler. No substance, purposefully geared for mass consumption. Use and throw away. Not meant to last, or to be beneficial in the long term. Immediate gratification. And to me, that is just boring. It is not worth my investment of time.

I think A LOT of people feel this way too, but are afraid to say it for fear of being persecuted in the modern "Everybody Gets A Trophy" culture we have turned into. People are afraid to criticize because they are afraid of criticism themselves.

CAes in point: my high school drummers finish a rep at the beginning of the season that is just awful. Shoes in a dryer. Popcorn. And all of the parents watching are like "They are so great!!! Why are you yelling at them? That was awesome..."

I am not yelling...I am trying to make them better. Trying to get them to have a higher standard. (I really am not yelling, but sometimes I have to be stern, which is also now an evil thing :rolleyes:...)

OK, no more tangents...

🚧 end rant 🚧
 

Arjun Diwaker

Well-known member
you are allowed to have opinions, and if you don't like something - as long as it is justified, you can say it

I don't know who you are talking about above, but I feel like the standard for quality has definitely dropped - been diluted.

Part of that is b/c I am old. Part is b/c I am a band director for a living, and am used to critiquing musical quality against certain standards. Part of it is b/c I grew up in the underground punk and metal scenes when I was young, and already had a skewed view of mainstream anything...

🚧🚧 OPINION ALERT!!! 🚧🚧

I just feel like mainstream anything has always been filler. No substance, purposefully geared for mass consumption. Use and throw away. Not meant to last, or to be beneficial in the long term. Immediate gratification. And to me, that is just boring. It is not worth my investment of time.

I think A LOT of people feel this way too, but are afraid to say it for fear of being persecuted in the modern "Everybody Gets A Trophy" culture we have turned into. People are afraid to criticize because they are afraid of criticism themselves.

CAes in point: my high school drummers finish a rep at the beginning of the season that is just awful. Shoes in a dryer. Popcorn. And all of the parents watching are like "They are so great!!! Why are you yelling at them? That was awesome..."

I am not yelling...I am trying to make them better. Trying to get them to have a higher standard. (I really am not yelling, but sometimes I have to be stern, which is also now an evil thing :rolleyes:...)

OK, no more tangents...

🚧 end rant 🚧
well maybe an extension of this post , do you find that the modern audience just claps for anything anyway it is presented on the drum kit? for some reason i absolutely despise it when the audience goes WHOOOOHOOOOOOO and cheers for a horrible display or perfomance on the drums? Personally i jsut wish the audience could differentiate fine playing from random hits.
 

Al Strange

Well-known member
25 years ago I would’ve had a dog in this fight and expressed many of the opinions above about metal and its “superiority” to the mainstream etc. However, as I got older I realised that I didn’t need to tie my flag to a particular mast and that I could enjoy tracks by George Michael, A-ha and Depeche Mode as much as I enjoy say Helloween, Whitesnake, Judas Priest, or Megadeth. The key is, do YOU find the music interesting and enjoyable? If that’s the case fill your boots and enjoy it; there’s no real value in looking over your shoulder and putting down other genres just because YOU don’t enjoy them, don’t respect the musicianship (always a mistake if you ask me) or because people who like those genres hate the music you enjoy…let other people do the hating, heck there’s enough of it in the world already. :unsure: 🤟
 

Sonic Defender

Junior Member
Seriously the idea of dismissing popular music is simply musical elitism. I also typically notice such critiques come from camps who can never manage to make music that has broad appeal. I am not for a moment suggesting that creating music for broad appeal is an ideal, but music is a very primal, evolutionarily stamped in stimulatory. Yes it becomes modified by conditioning to acclimate to the current time period, but it is also a container where all of the collective evolution is held. Popular music is popular because it does what it is supposed to do, it makes the listener want to listen, or to dance. I'm sure not going to question or evaluate that.
 

someguy01

Well-known member
Seriously the idea of dismissing popular music is simply musical elitism.
It's also a disservice to one's growth as a musician. The more you hear the more experience you have with sounds and rhythms. It gets reflected in your playing even if you're not conscious of the influence.
 

Arjun Diwaker

Well-known member
Seriously the idea of dismissing popular music is simply musical elitism. I also typically notice such critiques come from camps who can never manage to make music that has broad appeal. I am not for a moment suggesting that creating music for broad appeal is an ideal, but music is a very primal, evolutionarily stamped in stimulatory. Yes it becomes modified by conditioning to acclimate to the current time period, but it is also a container where all of the collective evolution is held. Popular music is popular because it does what it is supposed to do, it makes the listener want to listen, or to dance. I'm sure not going to question or evaluate that.
well technically , the posts so far are not exactly , er dismissing popular music but trying to show that metal too has a huge variety of technicality and musicality to offer.
 

Mighty_Joker

Silver Member
well technically , the posts so far are not exactly , er dismissing popular music but trying to show that metal too has a huge variety of technicality and musicality to offer.

Yes, it does. But is anyone actually arguing against that? Metal elitism is as big a problem as jazz elitism, or any other elitism.
 

Mighty_Joker

Silver Member
well , all elitism is a problem that needs to be eradicated.

Agreed. My point is though, that your posts are kind of an elitism in themselves. In defending metal so vehemently you are perpetuating the problem. It's like a person so keen not to discriminate a disabled person that they end up patronising them.

The problem of elitism is solved by tolerance and acceptance. That cause is not aided by beginning large debates about people hating genres. Your threads were out of context, by which I mean, nobody around here was saying "pop is amazing and metal is trash". Furthermore, earlier on in this thread you have stated that you "despise" talentless teenagers who make hip-hop records, because it doesn't take as much skill as making metal. Is that not elitism?

You go on to eschew all pop stars as talentless, saying anybody capable of producing a good pop record can become the next pop star, while metal takes countless hours of dedication.

Your posts are the most elitist here.
 
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Mastiff

Senior Member
I don't know guys. Have you listened to the Spotify top 10 (or whatever) recently? Pretty empty stuff, almost all of it with no actual instruments being played. Rick Beato has some great videos on this stuff... the new music simply has no complexity or variation. It's hard to argue that we haven't taken a dive if you compare the mainstream pop music from the 70s (or even 80's) to today. People are certainly allowed to enjoy it, but there are some objective measures here too.
 

Mighty_Joker

Silver Member
I don't know guys. Have you listened to the Spotify top 10 (or whatever) recently? Pretty empty stuff, almost all of it with no actual instruments being played. Rick Beato has some great videos on this stuff... the new music simply has no complexity or variation. It's hard to argue that we haven't taken a dive if you compare the mainstream pop music from the 70s (or even 80's) to today. People are certainly allowed to enjoy it, but there are some objective measures here too.

Sure. We can all allow that there is crap music of every genre. My points were on elitism though, which I really have a problem with.
 

Al Strange

Well-known member
I don't know guys. Have you listened to the Spotify top 10 (or whatever) recently? Pretty empty stuff, almost all of it with no actual instruments being played. Rick Beato has some great videos on this stuff... the new music simply has no complexity or variation. It's hard to argue that we haven't taken a dive if you compare the mainstream pop music from the 70s (or even 80's) to today. People are certainly allowed to enjoy it, but there are some objective measures here too.
:unsure:
 
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