Do I need to do something/fix this used 22' Agop 30th anniversary Ride ?

calim

Member
Hi,
I bought this used cymbal from a guy, shipped. He told me when we discussed that there was a small eroded part. Here is the picture.
Is it something I should be concerned ? Do you think I should do something to ?
The other side is intact.
(I think this is the place where previous drummers used to put there wet fingers)

IMG_20200323_130328.jpg

Cheers !
 
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C.M. Jones

Well-known member
Cymbals are finicky animals, and each behaves differently. In some cases, tarnish and erosion can have adverse effects on tone and so on. In other instances, they can add uniqueness and character. I'd use sound-quality as a benchmark in this case.

I wouldn't want pieces of a cymbal flaking off as I played it, however. That would be messy and potentially hazardous to one's health.
 

Peedy

Senior Member
I would guess sweat over a long time. Clean it off the best you can an see what it sounds like.

I am, however, wondering what kind, size and weight it is. If it were paper thin for instance, I’d approach it differently than if it were a heavy bottom HH.

Looks like it’s on the bottom. If so, gaffer tape could be your bestest buddy or maybe a bit of vaseline.

Pete
 

lefty2

Platinum Member
I find that very unusual. It’s almost like the Cymbal has been plated and the plating is coming off. I know very little about that brand, however I’m pretty sure they’re 80/20 copper and tin alloy like most of the other high-quality cymbals. I know there are people on here with metallurgical backgrounds maybe they’ll chime in
 

calim

Member
Hi ! Thank you everyone !

Looks like it’s on the bottom.
My apologies because I missed some useful information. The issue is on top, read more below.

This is a used 22" Agop 30th anniversary. I bought it from a private seller remotely, without having the chance to test it. (And guess what ? I can't even really test it even now because I'm confined at home with my children :D)
I got it for about $270 (brand new sells for 600+) and this is a second hand, below are some photos and comments:

20200324-DSC_0121-Big.jpg
My conclusion is that player had wet fingers ;) The keyhole's orientation and the oxydation zone by fingers tells how the cymbal have been used. The surface size where the "plating" is taking apart is very small relative to the whole cymbal size :)

20200324-DSC_0124-Big.jpg
On the back nothing really to notice...

20200324-DSC_0120-Big.jpg
The keyhole is relatively contained on top.

20200324-DSC_0125-Big.jpg
Inside the bell, the keyhole is even less pronounced...

And now, about the "plating" issue:
20200324-DSC_0133-Big.jpg20200324-DSC_0131-Big.jpg

So now I'm just hoping this wasn't a compulsive purchase for the price :)

I tried to pull up the plating a little to test the resistance of the material and it looks pretty tough. It doesn't lift easily. I could indeed sand the edges. The other question I have is how to prevent the cymbal to show off this edge when playing. we'll see... but I guess the keyhole will not help. About it, is there a way to recover/fix the key hole ? Maybe in enlarging the hole ?
Thanks !
 

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Stroman

Platinum Member
That looks like there was a void in the casting, and the flex of playing has cracked the surface above it, opening it up. I honestly have no idea what effect it will have going forward. I would be inclined to simply play it, if I liked it.

I can say with some certainty that isn't the corrosion caused by sweaty fingers. That type of corrosion is on the surface.

As for the keyhole, I wouldn't worry about it, either. The cymbal is likely heavier on one side than the other, causing it to hang in the same orientation. Removing the keyhole won't change how it hangs. I'd just use a good sleeve to prevent further keyholing.
 

mbettis

Senior Member
That flaking is commonly referred to as a "red devil" and is very common in less than state-of-the-art cymbal foundry operations. They even appear on blanks made in the finest foundries like Sabian and Zildjian. They are usually removed during lathing. Your cymbal did not receive much in the way of lathing, so that red devil is still there and very prominent. It's superficial and nothing to worry about. You can peel it off if you wish. Or, leave it if you wish.

Matt
 

Captain Bash

Silver Member
I wouldn’t overly worry about this, I would just leave alone and play it as is. It’s the opposite of a perfect Paiste.

I use a 22 Agop 30th as my main ride every Friday and it’s a fantastic cymbal. Both restrained and bold at the same time, I love the wonky bells and the variety of tones you get as you move around the circumference.
 

Stroman

Platinum Member
Thanks for the pics. I didn't know that finish was some kind of plating that could wear/flake off.
It looks kind of gnarly under the plating too. Some people seem to love them, but....they're not for me.
It's not really plating. It's a spot where a casting imperfection near the surface didn't get lathed off, and then popped open.
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
I wonder if it originally was one of those black coated cymbals and once someone removed it then the cymbals was open for degradation I've never seen that in a decent cymbals before. I wonder if you could sand it some then add bronze leaf to try and seal the area-just don't ever play over those areas.
 

Stroman

Platinum Member
I wonder if it originally was one of those black coated cymbals and once someone removed it then the cymbals was open for degradation I've never seen that in a decent cymbals before. I wonder if you could sand it some then add bronze leaf to try and seal the area-just don't ever play it.
I actually had a Sabian AA that had one some years ago. It was a brilliant finished one, too. I just played it, and it never had any negative effect.

Honestly, I think those little voids or flaws can happen in most any casting - they are usually lathed off or remain hidden in cymbals.
 

sammy123

Member
I have seen a small amount of this on a Byrne hi-hat top. Good to know it is nothing to worry about.

That flaking is commonly referred to as a "red devil" and is very common in less than state-of-the-art cymbal foundry operations. They even appear on blanks made in the finest foundries like Sabian and Zildjian. They are usually removed during lathing. Your cymbal did not receive much in the way of lathing, so that red devil is still there and very prominent. It's superficial and nothing to worry about. You can peel it off if you wish. Or, leave it if you wish.

Matt
 

TJK

Well-known member
That flaking is commonly referred to as a "red devil" and is very common in less than state-of-the-art cymbal foundry operations. They even appear on blanks made in the finest foundries like Sabian and Zildjian. They are usually removed during lathing. Your cymbal did not receive much in the way of lathing, so that red devil is still there and very prominent. It's superficial and nothing to worry about. You can peel it off if you wish. Or, leave it if you wish.

Matt
Very interesting! I’ve never seen a cymbal do this.
 
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