Discuss --------

Parts of it I liked better than the Doobie Brothers version, which isn't hard 'cause I never liked them. Good song though.

Breaks the rule of supporting the singer, and not just the drummer.
 
I think I suffer from OFDS (Old Fudd Duddy Syndrome)...

When I was younger I noticed that most older guys that had been playing for a long time played much more simply and more stripped down than the younger guys, who (myself included) were all about speed, technique, and trying to impress the other drummers in the crowd. I used to think that the older player's philosophy was in large part an excuse to become lazy as they got older.

Now that I'm older, the same thing has happened to me. Yes, part of it is laziness, as I don't have the energy I used to, and to be honest, I just couldnt be bothered anymore to play really fast and busy, but 90% of it is just that now I want to hear a song, not a drum solo on top of some other guys playing at the same time.

I have never liked Dave Matthews Band. Great band, great drummer, but to me it always sounded like a bunch of parts played by technically proficient players thrown together as opposed to an organic performance by a group of players trying to come TOGETHER to create something cohesive. When I imagine myself in a session like this, and think of the headspace I would be in while playing something like this, there would be very little listening and reacting to the other players, and a whole lot of concentrating on my own part and trying to keep time with everything else going on. I'm not taking anything away from this clip, great players for sure, but that's just how I feel when I see/hear something like this.
 
I actually really enjoyed it.

It's a nice break to hear some great drumming that is still actually quite tasteful in a world where drummers are constantly being strangled into submission. He's obviously having a lot of fun being given the opportunity to cut loose, he's tight, and he sounds good.

Maybe there were one or two fills that seemed a little unnecessary, but that's probably because we're all so accustomed to having to play as little as possible. In short, we're all caught in the stranglehold that renders us disallowed to have any fun behind the kit, and now we're projecting it onto this guy :).

I'm not arguing with your point of view, but mostly my fun behind the kit comes from laying it down. Ite not fun for me to play a bunch of disjointed notes as if I've been shot out of a canon. The joy for me comes from hearing all the parts lock together and propelling the song. Two schools of thought I suppose.
 
Yeah,
I'd like to be able to play that way... Though much too busy, too high-brow, a bit of showing off I'd say and some chops don't fit to the song.
I feels he listened a lot to Weckl ;-)
Too much technic is too much still.

Same : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q30b8TltJnE
Everytime I listen to that kind of super pro music, I want to play a bold AC/DC or Metallica tune right after !
 
I actually really enjoyed it.

It's a nice break to hear some great drumming that is still actually quite tasteful in a world where drummers are constantly being strangled into submission. He's obviously having a lot of fun being given the opportunity to cut loose, he's tight, and he sounds good.

Maybe there were one or two fills that seemed a little unnecessary, but that's probably because we're all so accustomed to having to play as little as possible. In short, we're all caught in the stranglehold that renders us disallowed to have any fun behind the kit, and now we're projecting it onto this guy :).

I don't think drummers are being strangled into submission. I just don't feel it's the drummers job to be soloing during the middle of song and to me this is what this is. all instruments should be backup to the singer and the drums the foundation of the of the rhythm section. If that is what the producer wanted fine, but certainly not my cup ot tea.
 
I liked it more than the original. I had no problems with the groove or fills. Not like he'd slam the cymbals with the end of each fill....
 
I'm trying to think of a setting where anyone would want to hear that song played that way— maybe at a drumming festival, where that guy would be "the musical one", or maybe at a drum company's booth at NAMM. Anywhere else on planet Earth this is just a lot of chop-socky. You get the feeling he doesn't even know what he sounds like. I don't know what he's thinking.

I'm going to go with my initial feeling of "Wow, haha, this sucks." It's ~ the musical equivalent of a Ferrari doing cookies on the lawn at a garden party.

And I hate the snare drum sound.

For comparison, here's Vinnie Colaiuta playing busy, musician-y pop with Gino Vanelli.

Have we heard of this drummer before? Damien Schmitt? His bio says he's in Jean-Luc Ponty's band, which makes sense. I think somebody on the forum posted a video of him going bananas on the drums a few years back?
 
It's nice to hear a drum track that's actually a real live creative drummer. It's refreshing to me, as a guy who suffers from programmed beat sickness.

They could be the worst sounding tracked drums I ever heard though. I mean doesn't anyone care about these things? Completely unacceptable.
 
What it lacks is what the original had in spades........groove.

As far as I am concerned any musician can play as much or as little as they want as long as the music still grooves. This one lost the plot. The whole becoming less than the sum of its parts.
 
They could be the worst sounding tracked drums I ever heard though. I mean doesn't anyone care about these things? Completely unacceptable.

In the guitar world, nothing is worse than listening to a guitarist that has recently found their right hand. Everything they play is either doo-whacka-doo or arpeggiated to an unnecessary extreme. It's not that they're doing anything musically wrong, it's just that the delivery is too busy to convey context. I felt the same way about this vid.

In the OP's link, there are just... how should one say... too many notes.
 
Good playing, but overplayed. If there's an audience for that, I'm not it.

Great drummer though.
 
For comparison, here's Vinnie Colaiuta playing busy, musician-y pop with Gino Vanelli.

Yes, and notice in this recording there are other rhythm instruments playing the up-beats and after-beats so that Vinnie does not have to play in an overly busy fashion.


What it lacks is what the original had in spades........groove.

Exactly!
And that is what adding other rhythm instruments can do; help you concentrate on the groove.

.
 
I think I fall in line with most of the others here. Great playing. But the groove was completely lost to me. There are some truly great melodies that were being covered up by the drummer. Each member of the group has a part to play, and things start to fall apart when we begin to get greedy. I'm sure we all know a guitarist (or in my case a sax player) that plays like every song is a solo.
 
Like what Bo said earlier, maybe grooving wasn't the goal of the producer. A lot of great music doesn't groove. The original grooved, maybe they didn't want to duplicate/compete with that.

There's always room for a new take on things. It's not like we have a limit on room. So it's all good.

Some great art wasn't appreciated in it's own time. Hey it could happen, this is definitely unappreciated lol. Look what Devo did to "Satisfaction" lol. That didn't groove and the original kinda did too.

I'm a groove junky but I don't require it in every song I hear. Classical music doesn't groove. But it moves me just the same.
 
Like what Bo said earlier, maybe grooving wasn't the goal of the producer. A lot of great music doesn't groove. The original grooved, maybe they didn't want to duplicate/compete with that.

There's always room for a new take on things. It's not like we have a limit on room. So it's all good.

Some great art wasn't appreciated in it's own time. Hey it could happen, this is definitely unappreciated lol. Look what Devo did to "Satisfaction" lol. That didn't groove and the original kinda did too.

I'm a groove junky but I don't require it in every song I hear. Classical music doesn't groove. But it moves me just the same.

True, but I also said I wouldn't buy it - and isn't that the point of putting out a product?

Truism aside though, I remember learning that J.S. Bach was not popular when he was alive. It was like someone discovered his stuff after he passed away and started getting people to play it, and then everyone said, "genius!" That could be the case here. Right now I can see a musicology class teacher play both versions of this hit song and use one as an good example, and one as a bad one. Totally subjective as to which one s/he uses for which ;)
 
True, but I also said I wouldn't buy it - and isn't that the point of putting out a product?

Truism aside though...

Don't let truth get in the way of a good story. People love to be snowed. It all depends on how it's marketed. Look at the pet rock. They should have took all the rocks that guy sold and stoned him with them lol. But hey the guy made some dough, good for him. No one was hurt.

It's not what's good, it's what people believe is good.

If I was given the job of marketing this song, I'd aim right at the rebels.

For example...

"Thumbs their noses at convention and creates arrangements that metaphorically gives the finger to the masses of pre-processed music-like products that are choking the life out of creativity"

So people think that this is legitimate and assign that value to it when they hear it. Humans...the masses, are easily manipulated lol.

Some people like it. What was the last song that was universally accepted anyway.

It's like food, you either partake or not. Doesn't mean it shouldn't exist if you don't care to partake.

And I happen to like mint chocolate chip ice cream smothered in smoked oysters :) Sweet and salty man, like chocolate covered bacon.

Being difficult,

UL
 
An old dogs reaction...

If this were an original and not a cover of a great tune I doubt it would get much attention at all.

Playing praises and criticisms aside "it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing" and to my ears it just don't swing...

Here's a challenge: Go to the Doobies version and see if you don't start tapping your foot and bobbing your head right from the start... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJe1iUuAW4M

(Oh...just listened to their PYT cover and came away with the same feeling...AWESOME chops...but the heartbeat isn't there....)
 
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For example...

"Thumbs their noses at convention and creates arrangements that metaphorically gives the finger to the masses of pre-processed music-like products that are choking the life out of creativity"

Hell yeah. I'm working on 20 pop songs at the moment for a thing in a few weeks and it's like banging my head against the wall. A couple of them are fun to play, but for the most part I may as well just start kicking a fence. If anyone wants a little bit of an unusual challenge, have a go at Wings by Little Mix :)

Some people like it. What was the last song that was universally accepted anyway.
I like many things, ranging from Chopin to Fleshgod Apocalypse. But I'm not a fan of The Beatles, I don't particularly like Vivaldi, and as a child before I even became a musician, I never liked the music I heard on the radio. Taste really is completely subjective. I'm glad songs like the one we're discussing exist - otherwise music would be much drearier and less interesting than I enjoy :). If I had to listen to nothing but the cliched "groove" drumming all day, I would have quit drums long ago because there'd be nothing left to interest me and push me to become a better drummer. Imagine if Vinnie Colaiuta didn't exist in the way he does today. That's what I'm talking about.
 
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