Difference between HHX and HH Manhattan ride?

Ytsephill

Member
I was wondering if anyone knows if the HHX Manhattan ride series is the same as the older HH Manhattan rides. By the looks of the two cymbals they seem very different but I might be wrong.
I played on a HH Manhattan once and it sounded amazing. I now want to buy one but since it has been discontinued I cannot find one anymore.
 

Winston_Wolf

Platinum Member
I've never done any A/B testing, but I used to own the Hand Hammered version of the Manhattan ride. Judging from the sound file on the Sabian website I'd say the HHX version is definitely in the same ballpark as the original version. Other than not being hand hammered, I think the new cymbal should sound pretty similar.
 

Ytsephill

Member
I've never done any A/B testing, but I used to own the Hand Hammered version of the Manhattan ride. Judging from the sound file on the Sabian website I'd say the HHX version is definitely in the same ballpark as the original version. Other than not being hand hammered, I think the new cymbal should sound pretty similar.
I thought the HHX line was hand hammered as well?
 

Big Foot

Silver Member
I have an older 18" HH Manhattan ride, it's my favorite cymbal - really fantastic. It rides and crashes really well and it has great stick definition and wash.
I also have a 22" HHX Manhattan ride (not the Manhattan Jazz ride but I thinks it's the same thing) it too is a great cymbal; washy, warm and nice stick definition.

The sizes make it a bit hard to compare but I would say (as Sabian would say) the HH is more traditionally made and the HHX is more modern darker/smokier and maybe a bit trashier.

I think if you find either the HH or the HHX Manhattan ride you'll be happy.
 
A

audiotech

Guest
I think, like the K Zildjians, the HHX line is both hand and machine hammered.
I don't believe that any of the Zildjian K lines are hand hammered any more, at least from the mouth of Paul Francis when I spoke to him about three years ago. With Sabian, only the HH or Hand Hammered series are hand hammered but only in their final stages of production to give them their final signature sound. I believe the HHX cymbals are "hand guided" using machine type hammering, hence the very large hammering marks, but I'm not entirely sure.

Dennis
 

NerfLad

Silver Member
I played a 20" HHX Manhattan Jazz Ride in high school band and I remember our particular pie sounding fantastic. Very balanced and versatile and of course great for jazz.
 

Big Foot

Silver Member
I don't believe that any of the Zildjian K lines are hand hammered any more, at least from the mouth of Paul Francis when I spoke to him about three years ago. With Sabian, only the HH or Hand Hammered series are hand hammered but only in their final stages of production to give them their final signature sound. I believe the HHX cymbals are "hand guided" using machine type hammering, hence the very large hammering marks, but I'm not entirely sure.

Dennis
Thanks for the clarification about the K Ziljians...learn somethin' new everyday...
 

Bretton

Silver Member
I was under the impression that the HHXs were just hit with a larger headed hammer, as the HH in HHX stands for hand hammered
 

Anduin

Pioneer Member
HH are hand hammered and have wide (traditional) lathing similar to AA.

HHX are hand-guided machine-hammered, and may or may not also be hand hammered. HHX have tight lathing similar to AAX.

Sabian’s customer service peeps are good at answering questions too.

I’ve got a 16 inch Manhattan, and it’s my #1 choice for a crash on jazz gigs.
 

porter

Platinum Member
I'd wager the X is, of course, more modern sounding and a bit brighter. Personally I'd go for an HHX Legacy in this position. But you can always look around, I'm sure MyCymbal.com has some demos of these. Given the track record of Sabian in classic sounding rides, though, I'm sure either choice will delight you.
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
HH are hand hammered and have wide (traditional) lathing similar to AA.

HHX are hand-guided machine-hammered, and may or may not also be hand hammered. HHX have tight lathing similar to AAX.
That's exactly right.
I was under the impression that the HHXs were just hit with a larger headed hammer, as the HH in HHX stands for hand hammered
The HH in HHX stands for "this is an offshoot of the Hand Hammered series that probably doesn't have any actual hand hammering on it". While the small hammer strikes on the HHXs are still done by hand, most HHX don't have those - most only have the jumbo hammer strikes which are done by hand-guided machine, as Anduin pointed out.

Just to repeat and perhaps emphasize the point - Zildjian does exactly zero hand hammering on any of their cymbals. That includes every single model within the K, K Custom, and K Con lines. Go to the Zildjian website and look at the very first question on the FAQ section where they're very clear about this. However, and this is just my opinion, that doesn't make them any less of a cymbal. There are too many other factors that go into designing and making a cymbal that makes a greater contribution to the end product than just how those hammer marks got there.

Full disclosure: I have Zildjian As, A Customs, and Ks as well as Sabian AAXs and HHXs in my current collection, and have had AAs and HHs in the past. I love all these cymbals so to me it really doesn't matter, though it is kind of interesting :)

I'd wager the X is, of course, more modern sounding and a bit brighter.
Not to sound like a jerk ranking on Sabian (not my intent), but honestly, the "modern cymbal" claim is a dubious marketing construct carefully designed to get you interested, and should be taken with a grain of salt. It doesn't really matter what they call them since you should be checking them out and fully digging them before you buy anyway. But the way I see it, nobody can rightfully claim to churn out "modern" cymbals when they're using more old-world Turkish cymbals formulas and processes going for that darker smokier vibe reminiscent of the old Ks. The way I see it, Paiste are the masters and owners of the "modern cymbals" crown with their 2oo2s, Giant Beats, and Signature alloys. That's really quite a departure from what I think of as traditional Turkish cymbal-making and the more industrialized North American off-shoots.

Anyway, pound for pound, the HHXs seem to be actually darker to me, which probably makes sense since there's quite a bit more interruption of vibrational paths through a heavily jumbo hammered cymbal than a more lightly hammered, less disfigured cymbal. But yeah, a thicker HHX Stage Crash is going to be brighter than an HH Thin Crash, so you have to get as close to apples to apples as you can to make that comparison.
 
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porter

Platinum Member
Not to sound like a jerk ranking on Sabian (not my intent), but honestly, the "modern cymbal" claim is a dubious marketing construct carefully designed to get you interested, and should be taken with a grain of salt. It doesn't really matter what they call them since you should be checking them out and fully digging them before you buy anyway. But the way I see it, nobody can rightfully claim to churn out "modern" cymbals when they're using more old-world Turkish cymbals formulas and processes going for that darker smokier vibe reminiscent of the old Ks. The way I see it, Paiste are the masters and owners of the "modern cymbals" crown with their 2oo2s, Giant Beats, and Signature alloys. That's really quite a departure from what I think of as traditional Turkish cymbal-making and the more industrialized North American off-shoots.
Basically, the way I keep "modern" and "vintage" (or whatever) tonality apart is like a brilliant vs. a natural finish. "modern" is more of a deep, lush sound, more "glassy", whereas "vintage" has a sharper attack & response with brighter pitch and more mid-range frequencies. Marketing terms, but good shorthand (at least for me).
 
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