Die Cast hoops and silver sealer
- Thread starter Rolltide
- Start date
bongoman
Junior Member
The silver paint was just to mask cosmetic imperfections and it became a “signature look” without really doing anything to the sound.
I’ve posted a lot about different hoops on here, they do have an impact on sound, but whether diecasts sound great on Gretsch 6-ply shells mostly depends on how much of a brand fanboy you are, or how used to that particular sound you are.
For me two bigger distinctions are the maple/gum ply layup versus the various shell materials of Ludwig and everyone else, and the bearing edges. Not saying Gretsch edges are better, or even uncommon these days; but there was a time when Gretsch and Ludwig had _very_ different bearing edges, and it was totally reasonable to prefer one over the other. The edges make a big difference to the sound and response.
I’ve posted a lot about different hoops on here, they do have an impact on sound, but whether diecasts sound great on Gretsch 6-ply shells mostly depends on how much of a brand fanboy you are, or how used to that particular sound you are.
For me two bigger distinctions are the maple/gum ply layup versus the various shell materials of Ludwig and everyone else, and the bearing edges. Not saying Gretsch edges are better, or even uncommon these days; but there was a time when Gretsch and Ludwig had _very_ different bearing edges, and it was totally reasonable to prefer one over the other. The edges make a big difference to the sound and response.
jda
Diamond Member
No it's the Jasper gum and Maple shell, then the hoops...
Listen to the gum Jazz DW and Pearl Gum series and the similarity to bog standard Gretsch
also the RB Jasper had a calfskin reverse outward cut bearing edge on the toms
then add the die cast and the sealed interior
-the interiors were sealed for the same reason you seal your deck.. preservation..
60+ year old Gretsch sets are like new;
I know I have two of them; sound today like they did yesterday
Look what's on the Rolling Stones tour; a 60s set and even at times a 60s snare; Gretsch build's last decades , don't fade away..
all the factors contribute
and how those plies were stacked
Ludwig for the longest time was a Lighter airier drum..
Gretsch were built like Packards heavy and tight tolerances
I've owned from 1970 many makes and Gretsch since summer of 75
they're built like tanks stay in tune tension forever
US tanks
Listen to the gum Jazz DW and Pearl Gum series and the similarity to bog standard Gretsch
also the RB Jasper had a calfskin reverse outward cut bearing edge on the toms
then add the die cast and the sealed interior
-the interiors were sealed for the same reason you seal your deck.. preservation..
60+ year old Gretsch sets are like new;
I know I have two of them; sound today like they did yesterday
Look what's on the Rolling Stones tour; a 60s set and even at times a 60s snare; Gretsch build's last decades , don't fade away..
all the factors contribute
and how those plies were stacked
Ludwig for the longest time was a Lighter airier drum..
Gretsch were built like Packards heavy and tight tolerances
I've owned from 1970 many makes and Gretsch since summer of 75
they're built like tanks stay in tune tension forever
US tanks
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IBitePrettyHard
Senior Member
I agree with @jda and @bongoman. The Maple/Gum shells are by far the biggest factor in the Gretsch sound. Perhaps followed by the bearing edges.
The Die-Cast hoops also contribute by focusing the sound. But if you put triple-flanged hoops on a USA Custom, it'll still sound like a Gretsch, albeit a little more open.
I'm a huge Gretsch fan and I love the Silver Sealer.....but it hardly makes any difference in sound from what I've heard. I compared the Renowns (with Silver Sealer) to the Gretsch Marquee series (without Silver Sealer). They sounded pretty much the same to me.
The Die-Cast hoops also contribute by focusing the sound. But if you put triple-flanged hoops on a USA Custom, it'll still sound like a Gretsch, albeit a little more open.
I'm a huge Gretsch fan and I love the Silver Sealer.....but it hardly makes any difference in sound from what I've heard. I compared the Renowns (with Silver Sealer) to the Gretsch Marquee series (without Silver Sealer). They sounded pretty much the same to me.
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jda
Diamond Member
it's a preservation move you don't want unfinished interiors like a woodworker wouldn't leave the interior ignored-
people made it out- to be more mystery- than that. When you finish the exterior you complete by a finish some attention given to the interior.
and never think about it again.
people made it out- to be more mystery- than that. When you finish the exterior you complete by a finish some attention given to the interior.
and never think about it again.
jda
Diamond Member
if you want to know the history I can do a cliff Note version
40s 50s- 3 ply mape/pop/mape die cast on snare only; stick chopper rims on toms;
1955/56- 6 ply Jasper- to today -same lay up hhvhhh mggggm die cast hoops on all toms and snare as always
reborn 2015 Broadkaster m/p/m 3 ply, scarf joint improved. stick chopper facsimile rims on everything; reintroduced 2015 or so
Brooklyn a new shell formula introduced 2013 or so stick shopper facsimile hoops
absolutely yes
1956 late 50s thru the 60s 70s 80s 90s..00s.. to today
the longest running series; touted as advancement on prior 3 ply
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TK-421
Senior Member
FYI, Silver Sealer is really no better or worse than any other finished shell interiors. The Marquee series had finished interiors as well, they just used something other than Silver Sealer for whatever reason. So the shells should sound pretty much the same. I can hear a subtle difference between a shell with a finished interior vs. one with an unfinished interior, but the differences are fairly nuanced (from what I recall, finished shell interiors tend to impart a slightly crisper sound).
But like others have said, the maple gum shells for USA Customs combined with die cast hoops and 30-degree bearing edges are mostly responsible for "That great Gretsch sound." Of course they also altered that formula somewhat for the Brooklyn and Broadkaster series, but achieved similarly great results.
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lefty2
Platinum Member
I remember reading in Modern Drummer magazine in an interview with someone from Gretsch (it may have been one of those inside Gretsch articles) that the silver sealer actually made imperfections more obvious, and doesn't cover anything up. It also affects the sound somewhat. I don't know if any of that is true but thought I'd throw it out there.
jda
Diamond Member
that's 2 of a few
mentioned multiple times above
search out some DW Jazz Series info and youtubes and Pearl Gumwood series same
there. taste of Gum
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DutchDrummersDreams
Platinum Member
To me a either a Broadkaster (even with my 301 hoops and direft shell mounted brackets) and a USA custom both have “that sound”.
And “that sound” can be altered with different heads, and to a certain extent, sizes too.
I really like “that sound” and feel. It’s musical to me.
Like you get more out of a drum compared to other drums.
And “that sound” can be altered with different heads, and to a certain extent, sizes too.
I really like “that sound” and feel. It’s musical to me.
Like you get more out of a drum compared to other drums.
jda
Diamond Member
(my Dad was a Packard dealer (actually Service Center 55-58)
Had a 49 Super Deluxe until 1976 in the show room
and 53 Caribbean convertible Green after that
dealer 1948-2018 I started in 1965
Had many Stude's Hawks and Avanti's
sure we had a Hornet or two
that's Fred/Gretsch all over. Senior
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harryconway
Platinum Member
That, and Gretsch shells were straight shells early on (JDA nice breakdown
), while Ludwig, Rogers and Slingerland shells had reinforcement rings. Slingerland produced a straight shell in 72 (5 ply maple/poplar/maple), Ludwig in 76 (6 ply maple/poplar/maple), and Rogers in 78 (8 ply all maple). Then, add the Die Cast hoops.
jda
Diamond Member
and it's all about the gum bout the gum, bout the gum, no treble
:eyes I like that song
gum's like a moderator to maple when combined
in this sense similar to poplar when mixed with maple but with a little different flavor richness
notice too for strength when one or more are in a row multiple gum plies get strategically stacked vertical & horizontal.
Jasper was doing this decision stacking back in 1956 when they began making drum shells for Gretsch and that formula remains to this day
:eyes I like that song
gum's like a moderator to maple when combined
in this sense similar to poplar when mixed with maple but with a little different flavor richness
notice too for strength when one or more are in a row multiple gum plies get strategically stacked vertical & horizontal.
Jasper was doing this decision stacking back in 1956 when they began making drum shells for Gretsch and that formula remains to this day
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yammyfan
Senior Member
I'm not sure if the silver sealer makes that big a difference but it sure looks good in some instances. My Gretsch kit is wrapped in silver pearl oyster so the silver interior really adds to the finished look.
Gretsch's 302 hoops make a big difference, too. They are as different from traditional triple flanged hoops as diecast hoops are, and three of Gretsch's most popular lines feature them so I would say that they are a significant contributor to the Gretsch sound as well.
Last but not least, Gretsch's 30 degree bearing edges make a substantial difference to their sound. There's just so much to like about Gretsch drums. I have never loved a drum set more than I love my Renowns.
Gretsch's 302 hoops make a big difference, too. They are as different from traditional triple flanged hoops as diecast hoops are, and three of Gretsch's most popular lines feature them so I would say that they are a significant contributor to the Gretsch sound as well.
Last but not least, Gretsch's 30 degree bearing edges make a substantial difference to their sound. There's just so much to like about Gretsch drums. I have never loved a drum set more than I love my Renowns.
striker
Well-known Member
Is the Gretsch 302 hoop similar to the S hoop? Thanks.
This is what the DCP web site says about them.
"Gretsch "302" hoops are 3mm thick, double-flanged metal hoops. Their design is inspired by classic Gretsch hoops from the early 1950's. The 302 hoops produce a slightly more open and ambient sound than traditional die-cast Gretsch hoops."
https://drumcenternh.com/products/gretsch-302-hoop-12-5-lug
Stroman
Diamond Member
They're not like S-Hoops at all. While the S-Hoops have an exaggerated flange that curves inward over the head, the 302s have no flange at all on top.