Did we move to shorter toms for practical reasons only?

S

SnickSound

Member
Artstar said:
So this works perfectly for toms and kicks..... but how do the mostly square floor tom size that so many still demand... how does this drum escape the shorter distance between heads being the ideal ??
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That's the part that puzzle me, and that's why I'm starting to wonder if short toms are a practicality and esthetic things more than a sound thing.

Then again, we don't necessarily use floor toms the way we use rack toms. When you put a 14x10 tom on your kit, you don't tune it the way you'd tune a 14x14 floor tom.

My Pearl Masters Premium did have a 16x13 floor tom... sounded fine... wasn't a fan of the look though. The 12x8 rack tom on this kit however was forgettable at best (4-ply maple + rerings), to be fair though I never changed the EC2S head that was on it and I've never been fond on these.
 
S

SnickSound

Member
Tamaefx said:
I keep thinking, that the power tom 12x10 / 13x11 werent that easy to tune well, they can be muddy.
Standard depth suits much better on those diameter. 12x8 13x9.

BUT in a 10 12 16 configuration, deeper is better. I play 10x9 12x10 16x16 and it’s a dream to play and to tune. Nice range and sustain. I think that shallow 10 (10x7) don’t have enough guts, they sound how they look like : short. And don’t get me about hyperdrive!
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Did own a Tama Superstar Hyperdrive... I had trouble capturing the toms when recording, the close mics captured more cymbal bleed than tom sound.

Then I changed the EC2S heads to clear Emperors and that helped a lot though.
 
S

SnickSound

Member
V-Four said:
Come on man, the Power Toms were on my dream set in the 80's. :p

THAT DISTANCE THOUGH!!! , from snare to toms...!!!

I still think it looks WAY better than.. ahem.."fast sizes"...


T$
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Tommy Lee is a tall fellow (6'2") so easier for him to get to those toms. But yeah, the transition from snare to tom is a long one.

I'm not quite as tall as him (just over 6'), and I still had issues with getting a 12x8 tom high enough using a DW 3500A snare stand. With the 12x10 I can easily get it right where I want it.

My kick did come with a kick mounted tom holder, and also a 13x11" tom. I have never been able to make that work, always go back to just the 12" on a snare stand next to the kick. Works for me.
 
wraub

wraub

Gold Member
I just set up my long neglected 13x11 tom as a left side low tom, and... I am very pleased. Tonally it does fit in very well in the set, and who doesn't appreciate a MIJ Yamaha drum? :)
MrInsanePolack said:
Turn it into a floor tom. I have a 13x12 floor that is just fantastic. It pairs very well with a 16" floor.
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I appreciate the suggestion, thanks. I'm still dialing in the placement, but I like the sound.
 
Tamaefx

Tamaefx

Silver Member
Tommy Lee used square toms, 13x13 14x14. that‘s different. I’m not tall (as tall as Tom Cruise!) and never had trouble to position power toms, though I admit shallow toms are way easier.
 
mikyok

mikyok

Platinum Member
Artstar said:
So this works perfectly for toms and kicks..... but how do the mostly square floor tom size that so many still demand... how does this drum escape the shorter distance between heads being the ideal ??
Click to expand...

I'm sure there's a science behind it. I've used fast floor toms in the past. You get a really pure fundamental note but there's not the body you get with a standard size floor.

Could just be there's not a problem setting them up, they just live on the floor unlike a big power Tom, they're a bit awkward to hit if they're mounted on a bass drum!
 
JimmyM

JimmyM

Gold Member
mikyok said:
I'm sure there's a science behind it. I've used fast floor toms in the past. You get a really pure fundamental note but there's not the body you get with a standard size floor.

Could just be there's not a problem setting them up, they just live on the floor unlike a big power Tom, they're a bit awkward to hit if they're mounted on a bass drum!
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I think that's right, and also it's because they have lower pitches so it means more to the bigger drums to have deeper shells.
 
mikyok

mikyok

Platinum Member
Yamaha Rider said:
Call me dense - but I thought power toms were made without reso heads.
Or have I got the wrong end of the drumstick?
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They were and weren't is the honest answer!

Nicko had a power Tom, concert Tom kit on the Powerslave tour. Phil Collins has some deep concert toms.

They're just deeper than usual toms!
 
W

WallyY

Platinum Member
I've been under the impression the naming convention goes Hyper, Classic, Standard, Power, and Square.

I do notice the harder the standard/power toms are hit, the more the overtones come out, like an amp, compared to shorter toms where the tone doesn't change as much at higher poundings.

I also think I remember, if my memory is correct, trying a black Noble and Cooley short shell steambent kit in western Mass that was in a music store back in the early 80s or maybe late 70s or so. The guy said there were only four sets made or something. I thought they sounded nice and warm.
 
JimmyM

JimmyM

Gold Member
WallyY said:
I've been under the impression the naming convention goes Hyper, Classic, Standard, Power, and Square.

I do notice the harder the standard/power toms are hit, the more the overtones come out, like an amp, compared to shorter toms where the tone doesn't change as much at higher poundings.

I also think I remember, if my memory is correct, trying a black Noble and Cooley short shell steambent kit in western Mass that was in a music store back in the early 80s or maybe late 70s or so. The guy said there were only four sets made or something. I thought they sounded nice and warm.
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Whatever depth shells they are, they can all be concert toms if you don't have bottom heads on them.
 
B

Bozozoid

Gold Member
Also visit YouTube and listen to John Goods thoughts on shell depth. His ideas make total sence which took me a decade to realize on my own.
 
SomeBadDrummer

SomeBadDrummer

Platinum Member
Power toms certainly have their place in certain situations. Unless playing an arena or larger setting I’m in the camp of equilibrium: volume without distortion, tonality over resonance…power under control. A3CB3C50-84EA-42BD-907B-0A6681929D1C.jpeg

12 x 9
13 x 10
14 x 14
16 x 16
22 x 18
 
Artstar

Artstar

Platinum Member
SomeBadDrummer said:
Power toms certainly have their place in certain situations. Unless playing an arena or larger setting I’m in the camp of equilibrium: volume without distortion, tonality over resonance…power under control.
12 x 9
13 x 10
14 x 14
16 x 16
22 x 18
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So you have "Fast" toms..... no ??.. and then traditional floors
 
Artstar

Artstar

Platinum Member
JimmyM said:
.
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yes.. in other words..... the kick drum.. but wait...... see how tricky this gets??.. You stated " and also it's because they have lower pitches so it means more to the bigger drums to have deeper shells. " ..... but most drummers seem to want shallower depth on the largest drum, the kick.... than their floor toms....... so it's like going from shallow up top...... ultra deep on the side.... then flip back to somewhat shallow down below on the biggest drum .
 
lefty2

lefty2

Platinum Member
Artstar said:
So you have "Fast" toms..... no ??.. and then traditional floors
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I think fast Toms are shallower than traditional tom. 12x7 is fast, 12x8 is traditional and power is 12x10 or deeper.
 
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