Did some experimenting with my bass drums and a SuperKick 1 and 2 (video)

SgtThump

Platinum Member
I'm having a hell of a time getting one of these bass drums to sound as good as the other bass drum, so I thought I'd swap the two batters heads (SK1 and SK2) and make a video to watch back and compare.

One of these is my favorite by far for tone, feel, etc... I'm curious what you guys think? Which head and/or bass drum do you think sounds best?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c0oYIcPt8Q&feature=youtu.be

Thanks,

Chris
 
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SgtThump

Platinum Member
Also, any advice would be great. I'm experimenting like crazy lately with tight vs. loose heads on these drums and I'd love feedback on the tones.
 

SgtThump

Platinum Member
To my ears the last one sounds best, I guess that is without the pillow./
The last one actually does have the pillow by the time I hit it for the first time. I didn't have the pillow in it at first, but I cut that part out.

By the way, the only reason I cut that part out is because I ONLY did that one combo without a pillow and didn't feel like going back through it all again. LOL
 
A

audiotech

Guest
I would have liked to hear them without the porthole. This would have been a more notable difference than what I've heard.

Dennis
 

SgtThump

Platinum Member
I would have liked to hear them without the porthole. This would have been a more notable difference than what I've heard.

Dennis
I tell ya what... Within the week, I'll do this same video, but I'll be adding a Ludwig Classic Maple 16x24 to the mix with a SuperKick 2. I can do them with no muffling to compare.

What do you think of the tones I have in this video, though? Too dead?

EDIT - Actually, I'll probably do the SK1 on the 14" deep bass drum, the SKII on the 16x22 bass drum, and an SKII on the new 16x24 bass drum. With and without muffling. I'm really only wanting to compare MY bass drums to each other to see what I like/dislike about each one (and to get feedback!)
 

opentune

Platinum Member
Neat test. If you ask me, I prefer the 3rd one, with SKI.
But as I understand they are identical drums yet sound different with same heads right?
Have to admit I don't like the SKI or SKII on my bass. In my experience you don't need any pack in there with the SK's, there's plenty of dampening on the head.
So my guess is I would like all your sounds even better with no pillow.
 
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audiotech

Guest
Re: Did some experimenting with my bass drums and a Super Kick 1 and 2 (video)

What sound are you trying to achieve with the style of music you play? What combination, so far, are you liking more? I'm hearing a lot of your room on the video and I watched it three time now trying to get a feeling for it. I'm also hearing either your pedal or it might just be the attack of the beater, I can't be sure. Originally I thought I was hearing some loose snares in the background. If it is the attack of the beater, the sound is probably just bouncing from the rear wall of the room. I earlier mentioned the port hole because that usually influences the lower fundamental frequencies and resonance of the drum almost as much as the heads themselves, in addition to the tuning and pitch of the heads. I do own resonant heads with 4 and 5" portholes, but they really never get used.

With demoing different heads, it's really easy for an outsider to give his or her personal favorites, because it turns out to be just that, having absolutely no idea what sound you are striving for. Personally I never put anything inside my bass drums. I usually use either Evans EQ4 or Remo Power Stroke Three batter heads. They have a small internal band of Mylar which dampens the sound to a very mall degree, i really wouldn't call it muffling. If for some reason I have a resonant head that doesn't respond well or sounds a bit too plasticy, such as Ludwigs logo heads, I'll just use a small width of felt behind the resonant head. The width of this felt is determined by the diameter of the drum. I'm usually after a deep, more open and resonant sound from the bass drum, a sort of middle ground that sounds great both live, with or without reinforcement, and also in a studio environment with very little additional adjustments being necessary. So whatever modifications you make to your drum's resonant heads, it will have a definite impact on the overall sound of the drum.

Dennis
 

Davo-London

Gold Member
You can hear slight more drum tone with the SK1, which makes sense as it is only single ply. Having said that I like the thump of the SK2. The portholes are large though and I can't see the mic, which may mean you've positioned the mic near the head. This would explain why you can hear the pedal.

Normally drummers mic the kick through the porthole. Is there a reason why you didn't do this?

These comparisons are very useful so thanks for sharing.

Cheers
Davo
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Agree with Dennis on room, beater, reso head format, etc, but on both drums, I liked the SK1 best. Just a little more tone. As expected, your 14" deep drum was slightly more focussed, & probably the more mic friendly of the two. Without the Evans pillow would offer more reso head augmentation, & I think that's what's needed here. A bit more tension on the reso head would generate more tone from the drum.
 

mikeyhanson

Silver Member
I actually liked the SK2 the best. I thought it sounded punchy and had good attack. And that's on both drums. The SK1 sounded good to me on everything but the first kick. Too much overtone for me there.
 

SgtThump

Platinum Member
I didn't close mic the drum. What you hear is a Zoom Q3HD audio/video recorder with built-in stereo condenser mics around 8 foot in front of the drums. I should've pointed that out. You're hearing exactly how it sounds in the room, which explains background noises.

My favorite is the 14x22 with the SK1 head. That's the very first one in the video. I like that bass drum more than the other and I'm not sure if it's the depth or what...

What's funny is that I originally had the SK1 on the 14" deep bass drum and the SKII on the 16" deep bass drum and this video shows me that's probably the best setup.

Thanks for all the feedback and advice!
 

SgtThump

Platinum Member
Oh yeah, the 14" deep bass drum on the right in the video is actually an early '80s Corder USA bass drum, which is one of the companies that ended up with the Fibes hardware stuff. The 16" drum on the left is mid-2000s Austin Era Fibes.

Totally different construction, but the same Fibes hardware.
 

SgtThump

Platinum Member
And this Zoom Q3HD recorder is killer for picking up exactly what you hear in the room, so don't feel "duped" by the drums not being close mic'ed. :)
 

Mad About Drums

Pollyanna's Agent
I prefer the SK1 too, more tone and a bit more open, and I also prefer the first sample, that's the 14" depth, right? Have you got any muffling inside that first sample? and what type of beater did you use, the old felt type? modern felt beater? rubber side of the beater, did you bury the beater into the head? did you play using rebound? what tuning?

The first one reminds me Keith Carlock's bass drum sound from this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lnIuwGRfIk
 

SgtThump

Platinum Member
I prefer the SK1 too, more tone and a bit more open, and I also prefer the first sample, that's the 14" depth, right? Have you got any muffling inside that first sample? and what type of beater did you use, the old felt type? modern felt beater? rubber side of the beater, did you bury the beater into the head? did you play using rebound? what tuning?

The first one reminds me Keith Carlock's bass drum sound from this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lnIuwGRfIk
Yeah, the very first thing you see/hear is the old Corder 14x22 drum with the SK1 head. That's my favorite, both for feel and tone. I do play using rebound and the pedal is a Tama Speed Cobra single with a rubber Iron Cobra beater on it.

I've worked hard on trying to NOT bury the beater into the head, because I like to hear it resonate a little and not sound so dead. I do, however, have one of those Evans EQ pillows in both of the drums in this video on all takes.

I play live and the soundhole/pillow combo seems like a requirement.

That tone in that Carlock video is freaking killer! His resonates more, but mine may be similar without the pillow? I'll have to do all of this again soon with pillow/no pillow, newly added bass drum, etc...
 

jodgey4

Silver Member
I didn't close mic the drum. What you hear is a Zoom Q3HD audio/video recorder with built-in stereo condenser mics around 8 foot in front of the drums. I should've pointed that out. You're hearing exactly how it sounds in the room, which explains background noises.

My favorite is the 14x22 with the SK1 head. That's the very first one in the video. I like that bass drum more than the other and I'm not sure if it's the depth or what...

What's funny is that I originally had the SK1 on the 14" deep bass drum and the SKII on the 16" deep bass drum and this video shows me that's probably the best setup.

Thanks for all the feedback and advice!
Great camera, and I completely agree with your choices.
 

Stefan Brodsky

Senior Member
I just jettisoned my Aquarian Superkick II in favor of an Evans Emad. Makes all the difference in the world. Deeper w/more thump and more sustain,depending upon which way I position the small pillow. Best to keep it against the reso head. Mics up well, too. Playing a Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute Nouveau 20" x 16". I think there's something to be said about having a dampening system on the OUTSIDE of the batter head vs. inside, as is the case w/ the Aquarian Super Kick 2. And w/the EMAD, you have the choice of a thicker or thinner inner ring, which are easily interchanged.
 
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