Dents along edge of new Paiste Dark Energy hi hats... URGH

SgtThump

Platinum Member
EDIT on 4/23/15 - These aren't dents along the edge. These are hammer marks and they haven't affected the structural integrity or sound. I'm sure they were there when I bought them new and just didn't notice them! I'm an idiot! LOL... They look worse in the pics, because I was trying to find the best angle to show them. These are KILLER sounding hats that I love.

So you may have seen my post about going to Memphis Drum Shop and picking out the best cymbals in the world. I landed on a set of Dark Energy cymbals and these are freaking AWESOME!

Did my first all day recording session with this setup yesterday and noticed dents along the edge of the hats that weren't there before. I'm not a hard hitter, I didn't use big sticks (Vater Fatbacks), I don't tighten the top hi hat down much at all, etc...

I did play a LITTLE hard yesterday, because I tend to do that when recording or gigging. Not so much at home by myself. These hi-hats are pretty thin, I'll give it that.

I've had thin Zildjian hats from the 60s, thin newer Giant Beats, and MANY other sets of hi hats and have never had this issue.

So... Did I just abuse them without meaning it or could there be some kind of defect in the hats themselves? Did I learn a very expensive lesson about technique or thin cymbals or am I not to blame?

This is a HUGE bummer for me... :(

I contacted MDS (they responded immediately!) and the options are to see if they get worse (2 year warranty) or send them back into Paiste for inspection.
 

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Cymbalise

Senior Member
I've never seen that happen to a hihat before. I'd send them back for a new pair under warranty.

Awesome cymbals though!
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
Are those B15? I've only seen that happen on thinner B8 Paistes - a couple 2oo2 thin crashes and a GB 20". I retuned the GB after just one rehearsal because of it. I usually play pretty hard but I was still pretty disappointed. Don't know what to tell you, man. Bummer.
 

SgtThump

Platinum Member
Yeah, they are the "Signature Alloy", which I assume is B15.

I was prepared for this to be my fault, but maybe it's not? Man, that would be awesome. :)
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
Yep, Signature alloy is B15.

Of course it was your fault - you were the one hitting them with a stick, right? What were you thinking??! Haha.

If it were me, I wouldn't exchange them because in all likelihood, their replacements are just going to do the same thing. I'd just send them back for a refund.

The bummer is more that the cymbals you like aren't suited to your playing. But you'll get your investment back, I have no doubt. It's Paiste's "fault" for producing cymbals without any durability to speak of.
 

Winegums

Silver Member
It looks like they went too soft with the tempering on the cymbal. Too hard and a cymbal will crack easily, too soft and it doesn't retain it's shape when you hit it.

I'd take the hats back.
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
Not good.

I didn't want to mention it in your 'drum store trip' thread, but I'm not a fan of the Signature alloy stuff either.

When you're done goofing around with all those other cymbals, settle in with a nice set of Zildjians.

LOL
 

MN02

Senior Member
I love paiste sigs, but I have seen this happen on numerous models. Typically the thinner cymbals, like thin Chinas. Bummer. You can pretend it's intentional like the ripple on the sound edge models.
 

gdmoore28

Gold Member
Sarge, This bending problem is definitely NOT your fault. If you are in love with these cymbals, then I would exchange them for another pair. If the same thing happens with the exchanges, you will need to find something else. Bottom line, cymbals are made to be hit, and they are not supposed to bend -- DUH! So, either Paiste screwed up this particular pair, or they have a much bigger problem.

I won't push you in any direction, per se, but I've been playing B20 cymbals for over fifty years and I have never broken or bent one.

GeeDeeEmm
 

Stroman

Platinum Member
Funny, you know how there are constant threads about Remo coating durability? Well, the other one I've seen a lot is the Paiste durability thread, lol. The interesting thing is, I have never had a problem with Remo's coatings, but I've had issues with Paiste durability with every Paiste I've owned.

It's a serious bummer for you, but I guess I'm not that surprised. I hope you are able to figure out what you'd like to do. I'm with MikeM - I think if you exchange them you will end up with the same problem again. Either keep them and live with it or move on, would be my advice.
 

gdmoore28

Gold Member
Funny, you know how there are constant threads about Remo coating durability? Well, the other one I've seen a lot is the Paiste durability thread, lol. The interesting thing is, I have never had a problem with Remo's coatings, but I've had issues with Paiste durability with every Paiste I've owned.

.
I worked at a music store for years starting in the 1980s and we carried Zildjian, Sabian, and Paiste cymbals. In all the time I was there, I remember NEVER having replaced a single Zildjian or Sabian cymbal for any reason. At the same time, we replaced dozens of Paiste cymbals from every price range. A dozen cymbals over many years is not exactly a huge problem for a music store, but can you imagine that number multiplied over thousands and thousands of stores?

I'm not dissing Paiste. I would very much like to outfit a drumset with Paiste cymbals. But the reliability problem with Paiste exists, and has been known for a very long time.

GeeDeeEmm
 

SgtThump

Platinum Member
The awesome folks at MDS will make things right no matter what. However, their initial reaction from the photos is that those are most likely hammer marks.

I gotta say that I'm pretty sure I inspected everything and these marks weren't there when I bought the cymbals. I'm also not used to seeing hammer marks come out along the edge of cymbals. However, I just did a 30 minute long hi-hat solo (lol) playing them light and very heavy and they don't look any different. I'm glad about that, but now it makes me wonder if these are hammer marks and not really damage as I thought.

I'm so freaking confused. LOL
 

Red Menace

Platinum Member
I once gave an 8" splash the Sound edge treatment by having is setup like a crash and beating the hell out of it. Granted this was when I was still new to the instrument and didn't possess the delicate chops I have now.

To dent a set of hats I think you'd really have to hit them with the intent of killing them. I've seen you play Sarge, you're no clueless tub thumper. I say send them back.
 

Duck Tape

Platinum Member
The awesome folks at MDS will make things right no matter what. However, their initial reaction from the photos is that those are most likely hammer marks.

I gotta say that I'm pretty sure I inspected everything and these marks weren't there when I bought the cymbals. I'm also not used to seeing hammer marks come out along the edge of cymbals. However, I just did a 30 minute long hi-hat solo (lol) playing them light and very heavy and they don't look any different. I'm glad about that, but now it makes me wonder if these are hammer marks and not really damage as I thought.

I'm so freaking confused. LOL
Do you think they affect the sound at all? The damage reminds reminds me of those sound edge/master sound hats.

I have seen a few broken/bent paiste hats over the years, this seems to be a thing with paiste. I'd just go ahead and send them for inspection. Surely they will give you a new top hat .
 

SgtThump

Platinum Member
The sound is not affected. I'm actually starting to think I may be a moron and these were there all along. I just hit them good again and nothing is denting at all.

This may be an instance where I'm glad to be a moron. Lol
 

Les Ismore

Platinum Member
... buy American!

I doubt PAISTE would let those out, they'd catch it a bad hammer job right quick in Schweiz bf they left the house.





...........................
 

gdmoore28

Gold Member
Even if they are hammer marks, even the most gullible knows that they should not be on the edge of the hi hat. If you keep them, then later decide to trade to another set of hi hats, what will the next buyer think about the whackered edges? Don't even have to answer that question, do we?

Give 'em another chance. Maybe second time will be charm.

GeeDeeEmm
 

SgtThump

Platinum Member
Even if they are hammer marks, even the most gullible knows that they should not be on the edge of the hi hat. If you keep them, then later decide to trade to another set of hi hats, what will the next buyer think about the whackered edges? Don't even have to answer that question, do we?

Give 'em another chance. Maybe second time will be charm.

GeeDeeEmm
Great points, as usual! I'll see what the Paiste distributor says. It's not like I can't live without them while they're being inspected and replaced. I hate that idea, but I can give my other cymbals some needed attention.
 
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