Definition of pro cymbals?

Metamega

Senior Member
So I was chatting with some drum buddies today. Where I'm from most shops deal Sabian and zildjian. We were chatting about cymbals and anyways, they started referring to intermediate cymbals. This confused me since I use the words pro and beginner. They referred to the aa, aax and a zildjian and a customs as intermediate. I use a mixture of aa and a zildjians right now in traditional finish since it was the sound I liked when I started 3 years ago. My ears are warming up to k customs and hhx now as my style and taste are changing. Now, my understanding is the aa and a zildjian lines are machine made while the k and hh series are hand made. On both sites they usually show a picture of what their endorsers use and a lot use the machine made lines. I find my aa and a zildjian deliver a nice sound. It's different then hand hammered but they deliver nice Sind with no crazy overtones. So are the aa and a zildjians intermediate in the drum world. I don't really care since its what I like to hear. Just looking for terminology I guess.
 
At Zildjian they use 2 methods to create their products, sheet bronze cymbal lines and cast bronze cymbal lines.

The sheet bronze cymbal lines is generally associated to the lower line cymbals such as the ZBT, ZXT and ZHT series. These cymbals are generally cheap.

The cast bronze cymbal lines is associated to the higher line cymbals such as the A, A Custom, K and K custom series. These cymbals are generally much more expensive.

So if you have A serie cymbals, they can be considered as "pro" cymbals, but it's all relative and subjective to personal tastes, you choose your cymbals for their sound qualities, not for which range of cymbal they are belonging, ie, beginer, intermediate or "pro".

Some professional players use lower lines within their set up, it's the sound first, the price and the "etiquette" doesn't matter that much, as a principle, at least. :)

Hope this helps.
 
At Zildjian they use 2 methods to create their products, sheet bronze cymbal lines and cast bronze cymbal lines.

The sheet bronze cymbal lines is generally associated to the lower line cymbals such as the ZBT, ZXT and ZHT series. These cymbals are generally cheap.

The cast bronze cymbal lines is associated to the higher line cymbals such as the A, A Custom, K and K custom series. These cymbals are generally much more expensive.

So if you have A serie cymbals, they can be considered as "pro" cymbals, but it's all relative and subjective to personal tastes, you choose your cymbals for their sound qualities, not for which range of cymbal they are belonging, ie, beginer, intermediate or "pro".

Some professional players use lower lines within their set up, it's the sound first, the price and the "etiquette" doesn't matter that much, as a principle, at least. :)

Hope this helps.

Like Mad said, the cymbals are either made of sheet bronze or they're not. The rest is just subjective...
 
Intermediate cymbals … interesting concept.

AFAIK, until Zildjian US began making K's in the 1980's, all US-made Zildjian cymbals were A's. Everyone who used US Zildjian cymbals, amateur, student, or professional, used A's. So I don't understand how A's could be called "intermediate". Intermediate to what? K's? Customs? Hybrids? Z's? They may be more expensive, but as Mad About Drums says, its subjective. These more expensive lines are just different from A's. They are not necessarily "better", or more "pro", just different. So IMHO, in as far as Zildjian cast b20 cymbals are concerned, I think the terms "beginner", "intermediate", and "pro" are derived more from pricing than from actual sound quality.

New Beat high hats are not intermediate. The 18" A. medium thin crash is not intermediate. The 21" A. Sweet ride is not intermediate. The 22" A. Swish Knocker is not intermediate. They are classics, used and coveted by many professionals and virtuosos. So enjoy your A's and AA's.
 
I think it's worth noting that there isn't a hand hammered cymbal anywhere in the Zildjian catalog. They're all machine hammered. This includes the shaping.

From the Zildjian FAQ page:

[+] Are Zildjian cymbals "Hand-Hammered"?


"With the development of new technology, the hand hammering is not the most effective or efficient way to manufacture the highest quality, consistent cymbal. We now have the ability to accurately recreate hand hammering with computer-controlled machinery. A computer can be programmed to hammer a cymbal in a symmetrical pattern, as in the A and A Custom ranges, or randomly, as in the K and K Constantinople ranges. Symmetrically hammered cymbals have a high, bright cutting sound because the hammer rows are more organized and vibrations can easily travel across the body of the cymbal. Randomly hammered cymbals have a range of overtones and a darker sound because the sound vibrations have to travel through the many unorganized hammer marks. This new technology has allowed a consistency in cymbal sound that cannot be duplicated by human hands."

Sabian does use actual hand hammering on the HH line (but not for primary shaping as the more traditional cymbal makers do), but the HHX line uses hand-guided machine hammering for the jumbo hammering.

The lathing for both company's is still done by hand, and that goes for A, A Custom, AA, AAX, K, K Custom, K Con, HH, HHX, Vault, etc... I believe only the Xs20 cymbals are lathed by machine.
 
A cymbal is pro if it sounds pro.

Cheap cymbals can sound good too, but sometimes its by luck-)

Tap lightly with a stick and if the decay is free from 'out of tune' resonances then it's probably good.
 
They referred to the aa, aax and a zildjian and a customs as intermediate.

Well, you tell your drum buddies they're wrong. And I mean.. wrong WRONG.. not "IMO they're wrong". They're just wrong.

It's a pretty common thing. Some drummers think that only K's, K Customs, HHX's and the like are the "top of the line" cymbals, whilst A's and AA's are of inferior quality, because they're less expensive and not hand hammered. Hell, I've met drummers who think that K Customs are better than regular K's....

First of all, K's and K Customs aren't even hand hammered. And second of all, K's being more expensive doesn't make them better, or more "pro" than A's. They're both professional lines made for different sounds.

Cheers.
 
Yikes.... A's are absolutely pro level cymbals all the way.

I have a few purchased back from the 80's and have played more gigs and recording sessions with them than I know how to count.

Ironically enough, it's many of the K's I purchased from this same time period I ended up selling. I have a couple more to unload as well.

This being said, I've been enjoying Bosphorus more than anything.
 
Don't your cymbals have to be blessed by a Professional drummer, before you can actually call them Pro level cymbals. Neil signed mine in gold pen personally, so I think I am good. :)
 
According to any logic based on hammering processes, Paiste doesn't sell a single professional product.

Pfft.
 
Don't your cymbals have to be blessed by a Professional drummer, before you can actually call them Pro level cymbals. Neil signed mine in gold pen personally, so I think I am good. :)

You're a lucky man Sticks even if Mapex won't. make you a 8x8 tom...lol... to have something signed by your favorite drummer is very cool indeed

yeah you're good..lol

Bonzolead
 
You're a lucky man Sticks even if Mapex won't. make you a 8x8 tom...lol... to have something signed by your favorite drummer is very cool indeed

yeah you're good..lol

Bonzolead
You do know that all Paragon cymbals come with Neil's signature mechanically put on the bottom of every cymbal. :)
 
You do know that all Paragon cymbals come with Neil's signature mechanically put on the bottom of every cymbal. :)
I knew he had a lot of input on the Paragon's but didn't. know his signature was etched on the cymbals also pretty cool..must be a pro-cymbal then..lol

Neil is my other favorite drummer btw.

Bonzolead
 
I knew he had a lot of input on the Paragon's but didn't. know his signature was etched on the cymbals also pretty cool..must be a pro-cymbal then..lol

Neil is my other favorite drummer btw.

Bonzolead
Well luckily you still get to see one of them. :) I am really giving Bonham a listen again after seeing the Led Zeppelin Experience. That is a big reason I am working on triplets at the moment. He is good, but just can't see the legendary status that many bestow him. Different drummers for different folks I guess. Many don't see it for Neil like I do.
 
Well luckily you still get to see one of them. :) I am really giving Bonham a listen again after seeing the Led Zeppelin Experience. That is a big reason I am working on triplets at the moment. He is good, but just can't see the legendary status that many bestow him. Different drummers for different folks I guess. Many don't see it for Neil like I do.

I seen the LZE & Jason IMO did a phenomenal job as did the whole band. the way I look at it Bonham was the Power of Rock drumming & Neil was the Technical aspect of Rock Drumming yes there is probably drummers who was better at both but no one brought it to the forefront like those two gentleman.

At least I can say I seen Neil live & yes he killed it great show.

Bonzolead
 
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