Cymbal vs cymbal stand overtone

veecharlie

Senior Member
Hello drummers,

I often hear recordings on social media or even happened to me in the past, that certain cymbals "resonate" against the structure of the cymbal stand and produce kind of a "heavy" overtone that should not have any place.
What's the trick to eliminate this?

I have been thinking of a number of solutions like different rubber pads, different cymbal stands (higher quality, better structure and better rubber legs), try to not touch the cymbal stands against the drumkit, etc. But, I have the problem I don't have a kit at home, so I can't experiment... that's why I ask.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
You must have a good ear. This hasn't been discussed much in the almost 10 years I've been here. I'm not sure it's even a thing.

But if it is, if I had to guess at it, I'd say either suspend your cymbals (however they do that) or set the cymbal stands up on dense foam, or make the cymbal stand feet into points like they do on high end speaker stands. Which is impractical.

I think you want isolation of the stand in relation to it's surroundings...to eliminate vibrations from going through the stand to the structure, not grounding of the stand to the structure. That's just a guess.
 

Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
It happens sometimes with my ride.

Vibration, resonance or both(yes it's the same, but I have to differenciante somehow.)

Case by case.
 

veecharlie

Senior Member
You must have a good ear. This hasn't been discussed much in the almost 10 years I've been here. I'm not sure it's even a thing.

But if it is, if I had to guess at it, I'd say either suspend your cymbals (however they do that) or set the cymbal stands up on dense foam, or make the cymbal stand feet into points like they do on high end speaker stands. Which is impractical.

I think you want isolation of the stand in relation to its surroundings...to eliminate vibrations from going through the stand to the structure, not grounding of the stand to the structure. That's just a guess.
Then I'm on the right track about "isolating the cymbal". Thank you so much for the advice! :)
 

veecharlie

Senior Member
It happens sometimes with my ride.

Vibration, resonance or both(yes it's the same, but I have to differenciante somehow.)

Case by case.
yea exactly. I was wondering if it was a defect of resonance on the cymbal or a resonance problem with the hardware and the kit.. that's why I wanted to know more
 
G

Ghostnote

Guest
Once you add other instruments into the mix, this phenomenon, if it did indeed exist, would not be audible.
 

crispycritters

Senior Member
If you flex your cymbal stands by hand and they don't rattle at the joints, the rubber feet and the felts are in good condition then I can't see this ever being a problem. If the floor is uneven it should not be a problem with tripod based stands, but if it is rubber matting should isolate it.

Has this ever been a problem for anyone?
 

caddywumpus

Platinum Member
I have played on a couple of stages that have this issue, playing a crash on one of the stages, and my ride on the other one, a low rumble was produced. At first, I thought it might be sympathetic resonance from the floor tom, but it was coming from the floor. Finally solved it with a small patch of thick carpet in one instance, and some sound foam for the other, but the foam made my ride cymbal unsteady, so I don't recommend it. It seems to be a matter of the perfect storm of how the energy is transmitted and received by the different mediums.

I just played a gig this last Friday where my floor tom was "dead" when I was sound-checking. I folded up my jacket and put it under the floor tom's feet, and the resonance came back. I'm going to get some of those Gibraltar feet for that floor tom to try out when I play there again next month. If it works, then maybe I'll get some for all of my floor toms.
 

mitkoni

Senior Member
Can you provide an example of this? I curious to hear what do you mean. You mentioned that you've heard it on the social media. Maybe a link?
 

veecharlie

Senior Member
Can you provide an example of this? I curious to hear what do you mean. You mentioned that you've heard it on the social media. Maybe a link?
Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP2VBVjRtEM

Disclaimer:
Nothing wrong with Diril Cymbals. I actually LOVE them. They are the first brand that has every cymbal I would love to have in terms of sound. Highly recommend them.. way too underrated. But, here is my "resonance" issue with the stand.
 

veecharlie

Senior Member
I have played on a couple of stages that have this issue, playing a crash on one of the stages, and my ride on the other one, a low rumble was produced. At first, I thought it might be sympathetic resonance from the floor tom, but it was coming from the floor. Finally solved it with a small patch of thick carpet in one instance, and some sound foam for the other, but the foam made my ride cymbal unsteady, so I don't recommend it. It seems to be a matter of the perfect storm of how the energy is transmitted and received by the different mediums.

I just played a gig this last Friday where my floor tom was "dead" when I was sound-checking. I folded up my jacket and put it under the floor tom's feet, and the resonance came back. I'm going to get some of those Gibraltar feet for that floor tom to try out when I play there again next month. If it works, then maybe I'll get some for all of my floor toms.
Wow that's crazy how soundwaves behave.. very interesting o_O
 

thebarak

Senior Member
Surely the first point of isolation is the felt washer under the cymbal? If the sound does not get into the stand, it won't get into the stage.

Maybe try a new felt washer?
 

opentune

Platinum Member
Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP2VBVjRtEM

Disclaimer:
Nothing wrong with Diril Cymbals. I actually LOVE them. They are the first brand that has every cymbal I would love to have in terms of sound. Highly recommend them.. way too underrated. But, here is my "resonance" issue with the stand.
Hmmm, I don't hear anything but a nice cymbal in that vid. Surely the cymbal is resonating but I don't here any unpleasing overtones.
 

veecharlie

Senior Member
Surely the first point of isolation is the felt washer under the cymbal? If the sound does not get into the stand, it won't get into the stage.

Maybe try a new felt washer?
That's what I tought too. I'm researching what good market solutions there are.. the funny part is that you can't go to a store and "test" them as they come in a closed pack lololol
 

mrfingers

Senior Member
Don't forget to put some kind of "sleeve" on the cymbal's stem to keep the cymbal isolated besides felt washers. You don't want to be key-holing your bell, either, so sleeves prevent that too.
 

crispycritters

Senior Member
I'm not hearing it - all cymbals have overtones, which you either find pleasing or otherwise - I can't identify anything that suggests to me that any of the hardware in those vids is creating a problem.
 

mitkoni

Senior Member
I checked both of the links you provided and I couldn't hear anything out of ordinary that could be related to the cymbal stands. I used fairly good headphones. I don't want to dismiss what you are hearing, but I'm positive that whatever it is, I doubt that will have a significant effect in a band contest. It's kind of like the snare buzz. And in this case, comparing it to the snare buzz it's a bit of exaggerating IMO.
 

veecharlie

Senior Member
I checked both of the links you provided and I couldn't hear anything out of ordinary that could be related to the cymbal stands. I used fairly good headphones. I don't want to dismiss what you are hearing, but I'm positive that whatever it is, I doubt that will have a significant effect in a band contest. It's kind of like the snare buzz. And in this case, comparing it to the snare buzz it's a bit of exaggerating IMO.
Ok.. Seems that my oversensitive ears still troll me. lol

The last time they did, I was complaining to a guitar luthier that my guitar was out of intonation, and according to him and his tuners were not. haha!

I agree that's not an easy "hearable" overtone, however... From the comments above, I'm 99,9% convinced it's about the resonance of the cymbals to other things like the stand, floor, kit, etc than the cymbal itself. I also have noticed this is hearable mostly in "raw" recordings than "mixed" ones. I think there might be a possibility to filter out "unwanted" frequencies when editing.

Besides, I agree it's a bit comparing like the snare buzz. There are things we can do to improve it, but very hard to get 100% over it.
 

SmoothOperator

Gold Member
My practice room is on carpet, I feel like I would get a cleaner crisper sound if I were on a wood floor. I think the carpet+foam+rug have play that allows the stands to absorb some of the energy from playing. If the stands were on wood they wouldn't move so much.

IMO it isn't a good idea to go crazy with isolating cymbals, because they need to flex.
 
Top