"Cymbal Craftsman" Paul Francis

Paul Francis has joined the forum and will participate in the discussions. He is really the most respected Cymbal Expert in the worldwide drum community for 35 years. At the times when i made business with Zildjian, he always choosed Cymbals for me - from Swish Knockers to Prototypes - what a kind person he is. I think Z is really in trouble. His new company and also his username here is CYMBAL CRAFTSMAN. Please don't hesitate to take contact - he has all my and our support, help and publicity!!
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Welcome, Paul! I met you at NAMM 2017. We talked about the then-new Avedis line. I since have acquired a set and they are my go-to cymbals these days. Looking forward to hearing your wisdom and experience here on DW.
 
how/what method/ who does

Put the cups in : )
 
Liam said:
If you mean the bell they are usaly pressed in to the cymbal after it has been rolled.
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not (exactly) what I asked.. Who shaped it who put it in; or does Blank come in already cupped;

next question would be; what equipment do you have, Lathe etc.. How and where are you set up and producing these!
 
jda said:
not (exactly) what I asked.. Who shaped it who put it in; or does Blank come in already cupped;

next question would be; what equipment do you have, Lathe etc.. How and where are you set up and producing these!
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These questions are better left for Paul but from what I remember the process goes as such.

1)tin and copper are mixed together and castings are made
2)castings go through a oven were they are heated and then rolled, this happens multiple times until the blank has the right thickness
3)once the cymbal is at the right thickness they quench it in cold water because the alloy is brittle and can shatter like glass
4)After the quenching the cymbals then get a bell pressed in to them
5)after the bell is pressed the cymbal moves on to the lathe, the first part of the lathing is to remove the tin oxide, after this the cymbal is lathed to a exact thickness
6)the cymbal then gets tested to make sure it has the right sound characteristic, assuming it does it then gets the logo stamped in to it

For a more in-depth look search up a Zildjian factory tour and you will find a bunch of vids.
 
the Instagram answers what I was wondering

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Mediocrefunkybeat said:
They're ok but they're not anything special. No 'Nefertiti' there for sure.
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Hello. Are you interested in a Nefertiti style ride? I was fortunate enough to have Wallace Roney leave it with me for a while when I was still working at my former employer. I have a picture somewhere of Wallace and me and Vince Wilburn (Tony’s nephew) I’ll try to locate it and post
 
Bernhard said:
Paul Francis has joined the forum and will participate in the discussions. He is really the most respected Cymbal Expert in the worldwide drum community for 35 years. At the times when i made business with Zildjian, he always choosed Cymbals for me - from Swish Knockers to Prototypes - what a kind person he is. I think Z is really in trouble. His new company and also his username here is CYMBAL CRAFTSMAN. Please don't hesitate to take contact - he has all my and our support, help and publicity!!
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View attachment 119224
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Thank you Bernhard. It’s great to be part of this community again. I was a member years ago when I was at Z. I’ll try to answer any questions that I can.
 
Cymbalcraftsman said:
Hello. Are you interested in a Nefertiti style ride? I was fortunate enough to have Wallace Roney leave it with me for a while when I was still working at my former employer. I have a picture somewhere of Wallace and me and Vince Wilburn (Tony’s nephew) I’ll try to locate it and post
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Like to have seen the stamp build era of K that was..
 
Hi Paul, if this is something you would rather not discuss then don’t bother answering, but is there any chance you could give details on why you are no longer with Zildjian?
 
Cymbalcraftsman said:
Hello. Are you interested in a Nefertiti style ride? I was fortunate enough to have Wallace Roney leave it with me for a while when I was still working at my former employer. I have a picture somewhere of Wallace and me and Vince Wilburn (Tony’s nephew) I’ll try to locate it and post
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Well, that's a nice counter-post to say the least. Nice to meet you.

I have plenty of rides at the moment and I don't think I could possibly justify another one in terms of my playing, finances and I certainly wouldn't be able to get the best out of it. But that's the best countering post I've ever read. Fair play!
 
those Build eras of old Ks..Old Intermediate New ...were pretty definitive : ) almost like same 'team' (thru an era or had 'same" foreman responsible; I can have a New Stamp in front of me and compare with a New Stamp in say New Zealand... and they are (were) almost carbon copy's.. Old Ks thru out an era (defined by stamp) are way most consistent (thru out the era) than many acknowledge. Amazingly era consistent
Cymbalcraftsman said:
Sorry, I don’t have a picture of the trademark. This was given to Wallace by Tony and told him that this is what he used on Nefertiti. That’s what Wallace shared with me.
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thanks, Paul
 
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guess that's (that consistency..) (strict parameters) an advantage (or result) of having a small team build...
@Cymbalcraftsman
I always thought Avedis thru the 50s 60s 70s had more freedom with final product (wider leeway parameters) (or just more men varying the finishing) than Old K Zildjian did. Again , contrary to popular thought.
(old K seem strict!...or less hands involved.
 
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jda said:
those Build eras of old Ks..Old Intermediate New ...were pretty definitive : ) almost like same 'team' (thru an era or had 'same" foreman responsible; I can have a New Stamp in front of me and compare with a New Stamp in say New Zealand... and they are (were) almost carbon copy's.. Old Ks thru out an era (defined by stamp) are way most consistent (thru out the era) than many acknowledge. Amazingly era consistent

thanks, Paul
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Here’s another picture of that cymbal, again, I’m sorry I don’t have a picture of the trademark.

1652634525772.jpeg
 
jda said:
guess that's (that consistency..) (strict parameters) an advantage (or result) of having a small team build...
@Cymbalcraftsman
I always thought Avedis thru the 50s 60s 70s had more freedom with final product (wider leeway parameters) (or just more men varying the finishing) than Old K Zildjian did. Again , contrary to popular thought.
(old K seem strict!...or less hands involved.
Click to expand...
Both factories were really small. Avedis got away from putting the cups in with sledgehammers and started bumping the blanks and putting hammer rows instead of hammering the blank in a more asymmetrical way.
 
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