cymbal advice needed

My son is 10 and been in drum lessons about 2 years and I just got him a set of Acoustic drums (started on electric). They didn't come with cymbals. I bought a ride and hi hat from this set of cymbals for a good deal.

Parish Heritage and they sound great but are super dark and would like to get a different crash. And something in the $150-250 range. His favorite music is Fleet Foxes Helplessness blues album thanks to my wife. I feel like I should go a tad brighter but still match the tone of the ride and hi-hats enough because I tried the Heritage cymbal and to me it sounded way too close to the ride and I didn't love it. Mainly I want something to fit more into the music he is trying to play. Here is a video of them to hear what they sound like

Any suggestions of what crash cymbal to go with that would sound like that dude?

Stuff I have seen used around town that people are selling
Zildjain K Med thin Dark 18 inch for $230
Meinl 18 inch byzance dark crash $200
Meinl 16 in Byzance Dark Crash $200

But if there is something else I could order that is fine, I just want to get something close to the sound so he can play along and hopefully keep loving the drums because he seems really great for a 10 year old but I don't know much about drums. Any advice would help. Thanks!
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
Personally, I wouldn't introduce a bright crash to dark hats and a dark ride. I like a unified cymbal family -- all dark, all bright, or all somewhere in the middle. But given that your son is only ten, finding the perfect sound right now is of little relevance. He has a lot of practicing to do, regardless of how good he might be after only two years of work. I'd let him select any reasonably priced crash he finds appealing. Then I'd expect him to put it to productive use. He has plenty of time to pinpoint his signature sound as his experience broadens. Development is the only critical concern for now.
 

TK-421

Senior Member
Personally, I wouldn't introduce a bright crash to dark hats and a dark ride. I like a unified cymbal family -- all dark, all bright, or all somewhere in the middle. But given that your son is only ten, finding the perfect sound right now is of little relevance. He has a lot of practicing to do, regardless of how good he might be after only two years of work. I'd let him select any reasonably priced crash he finds appealing. Then I'd expect him to put it to productive use. He has plenty of time to pinpoint his signature sound as his experience broadens. Development is the only critical concern for now.
I'm not quite as rigid as C.M. about mixing bright with dark cymbals, but in this case, these cymbals are pretty dark and I think you'd have a hard time finding a bright crash to fit them.

That said, I happen to really like the sound of these cymbals, and wouldn't hesitate in the least to buy a crash from this series. Darker, mellower cymbals are becoming far more popular these days, and I think they work exceptionally well for most styles of music—including the Fleet Foxes example posted. Unless your son decides to play death metal or some other form of extreme music, I'd go with another dark crash. You could do one in a smaller diameter (i.e. 16" or 17"), which would raise the pitch a bit. That of course won't make it any brighter, but it would add some additional sonic differentiation from the ride.
 
Personally, I wouldn't introduce a bright crash to dark hats and a dark ride. I like a unified cymbal family -- all dark, all bright, or all somewhere in the middle. But given that your son is only ten, finding the perfect sound right now is of little relevance. He has a lot of practicing to do, regardless of how good he might be after only two years of work. I'd let him select any reasonably priced crash he finds appealing. Then I'd expect him to put it to productive use. He has plenty of time to pinpoint his signature sound as his experience broadens. Development is the only critical concern for now.
Yeah I see what you are saying. I just ask for advice because there are so many options and I only have a limited budget so I want to make the best choice. And he does have a lot to learn for sure, but ever since I got him those good drums instead of those beginner electronic drums I do love listening to him practice more! But I see what you are saying about the dark. I just didn't like the crash from the same set because it sounded almost the same and I at least wanted a little variation.
 
I'm not quite as rigid as C.M. about mixing bright with dark cymbals, but in this case, these cymbals are pretty dark and I think you'd have a hard time finding a bright crash to fit them.

That said, I happen to really like the sound of these cymbals, and wouldn't hesitate in the least to buy a crash from this series. Darker, mellower cymbals are becoming far more popular these days, and I think they work exceptionally well for most styles of music—including the Fleet Foxes example posted. Unless your son decides to play death metal or some other form of extreme music, I'd go with another dark crash. You could do one in a smaller diameter (i.e. 16" or 17"), which would raise the pitch a bit. That of course won't make it any brighter, but it would add some additional sonic differentiation from the ride.
Good point about the size. I do think the pitch is what I reacted to in that crash cymbal combo from the same set. Would one of those dark crashes from that local list be a good option? The crash I had was the 20 inch one and that was the smallest one in that series they make.
Zildjain K Med thin Dark 18 inch for $230
Meinl 18 inch byzance dark crash $200
Meinl 16 in Byzance Dark Crash $200

Or something else? Someone suggested a Istanbul 19" Xist Crash but that may be too bright.
 
I'm not quite as rigid as C.M. about mixing bright with dark cymbals, but in this case, these cymbals are pretty dark and I think you'd have a hard time finding a bright crash to fit them.

That said, I happen to really like the sound of these cymbals, and wouldn't hesitate in the least to buy a crash from this series. Darker, mellower cymbals are becoming far more popular these days, and I think they work exceptionally well for most styles of music—including the Fleet Foxes example posted. Unless your son decides to play death metal or some other form of extreme music, I'd go with another dark crash. You could do one in a smaller diameter (i.e. 16" or 17"), which would raise the pitch a bit. That of course won't make it any brighter, but it would add some additional sonic differentiation from the ride.
Istanbul also makes this
17'' Xist Dry Dark Crash
 

TK-421

Senior Member
Good point about the size. I do think the pitch is what I reacted to in that crash cymbal combo from the same set. Would one of those dark crashes from that local list be a good option? The crash I had was the 20 inch one and that was the smallest one in that series they make.
Zildjain K Med thin Dark 18 inch for $230
Meinl 18 inch byzance dark crash $200
Meinl 16 in Byzance Dark Crash $200

Or something else? Someone suggested a Istanbul 19" Xist Crash but that may be too bright.
From your list of choices, I'd go with either Meinl Byzance crash, as those are darker than a Medium Thin Zildjian K and should sound fairly in-line with the other Parish cymbals you already own. I personally prefer larger crashes, so perhaps the 18", which should still offer plenty of sonic differentiation from that ride.
 

TK-421

Senior Member
Istanbul also makes this
17'' Xist Dry Dark Crash
That XIST line is really trashy sounding. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I'd want something more versatile as my only crash. So I'm still thinking that the 18" Meinl Byzance (or the 16" if you prefer smaller crashes) would work well.
 
That XIST line is really trashy sounding. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I'd want something more versatile as my only crash. So I'm still thinking that the 18" Meinl Byzance (or the 16" if you prefer smaller crashes) would work well.
Thanks!! I think that one might be worth picking up then. What I have watched on Youtube it sounds great!
 

harryconway

Platinum Member
Parish Heritage and they sound great but are super dark and would like to get a different crash.
Sabians HH and HHX lines are dark. Also their Monarch and Big&Ugly series. Here's an 18" HH Medium thin crash played with their XSR Monarch hats, for an idea of a "brighter crash" over dark hats .....
 
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NouveauCliche

Senior Member
Istanbul also makes this
17'' Xist Dry Dark Crash
I'd be really careful with a line like the Dry Dark Crash - that's a super specific sound that exists in it's own lane.

I personally like the idea of the Zildjain K Med thin Dark 18 inch - it's a bit more open and shimmery than something like the dry dark crash - and pretty versatile.

I don't think it's tonally TOO crazy for the rest of the set and it will give him another tonal option to explore...may end up being his favorite cymbal.
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
I'd be really careful with a line like the Dry Dark Crash - that's a super specific sound that exists in it's own lane.
Yeah, the K Dry Dark cymbals, for instance, are far from serving all-purpose roles. They're almost effects cymbals in my opinion. There's a doctored, sampled quality about their tone, as though as whip is being cracked against a bag filled with cake icing. Definitely not my sound, but to each his own.

The whole light vs. dark cymbal debate ebbs and flows with the passage of time. Remember how so many drummers back in the '90s wanted piccolo snares cranked to the max, 13" hats, and A Custom crashes that cut like butcher knives? Now it's snares with 12" depths and cymbals darker than a power outage. The pendulum is certain to swing again.
 
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TK-421

Senior Member
Yeah, the K Dry Dark cymbals, for instance, are far from serving all-purpose roles. They're almost effects cymbals in my opinion. There's a doctored, sampled quality about their tone, as though as whip is being cracked against a bag filled with cake icing. Definitely not my sound, but to each his own.
Which K cymbals are you referring to? There is no such thing as a "K Dry Dark" cymbal. For crashes, there's a K Dark Thin, K Dark Medium Thin, K Custom Dark, K Custom Special Dry, plus a few others—none of which have both "Dry" and "Dark" in their names.

And out of all the various K models, the only ones that sound somewhat like effects cymbals are the K Custom Special Dry series, as they are very dry and trashy. I'm mainly referring to the new ones they relaunched a few years ago. I have some hi hat cymbals and I used to have a ride from the original series they launched in the early 2000s, and those sound way different—and better—to me.

All the other Ks really aren't that dark at all. In fact, I'd consider them kind of midway between bright and dark, making them all-purpose. That's why I play mostly K's for everything.
 

Lennytoons

Senior Member
I'd get a Zildjian A 18" medium crash and pair it with another A 16" medium thin crash and call it a day. They go with just about anything.
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
Which K cymbals are you referring to? There is no such thing as a "K Dry Dark" cymbal. For crashes, there's a K Dark Thin, K Dark Medium Thin, K Custom Dark, K Custom Special Dry, plus a few others—none of which have both "Dry" and "Dark" in their names.

And out of all the various K models, the only ones that sound somewhat like effects cymbals are the K Custom Special Dry series, as they are very dry and trashy. I'm mainly referring to the new ones they relaunched a few years ago. I have some hi hat cymbals and I used to have a ride from the original series they launched in the early 2000s, and those sound way different—and better—to me.

All the other Ks really aren't that dark at all. In fact, I'd consider them kind of midway between bright and dark, making them all-purpose. That's why I play mostly K's for everything.
The K Custom Special Dry specifically. I was making a generalization above, as in Ks with the darkest, driest characters. Not all Ks fit that description. I've heard a few that are even brighter than some As.

Interestingly, my favorite K is probably the Kerope, especially the hats. They've got a richness that really strikes me.
 

TK-421

Senior Member
The K Custom Special Dry specifically. I was making a generalization above, as in Ks with the darkest, driest characters. Not all Ks fit that description. I've heard a few that are even brighter than some As.

Interestingly, my favorite K is probably the Kerope, especially the hats. They've got a richness that really strikes me.
That's kind of what I figured, as the new K Custom Special Dry line is very much a one-trick pony of trashiness. As for bright Ks, the K Custom Hybrid series is very bright (to me). I actually don't like them at all, as I generally do not like bright cymbals.

Last summer I bought a pair of 14" Kerope hi hats—and returned them a few days later. They sounded outstanding in the big open room of the store where I bought them, but in my much smaller studio, they didn't sound anywhere near as good. It seems to me that the better the cymbal, the more the room affects its sound. And unfortunately, those hats and my studio just didn't get along.
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
Last summer I bought a pair of 14" Kerope hi hats—and returned them a few days later. They sounded outstanding in the big open room of the store where I bought them, but in my much smaller studio, they didn't sound anywhere near as good. It seems to me that the better the cymbal, the more the room affects its sound. And unfortunately, those hats and my studio just didn't get along.
That's kind of what I've gathered about Keropes from demos. Also, they strike me as great cymbals for certain tracks but fall short of covering all bases for gigging and so on. That's just my interpretation. Others might depart from it. Regardless, I like the Keropes I've heard, though the Avedis offerings beat them in my final analysis.
 
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