Crotch or Thigh?

zambizzi

Platinum Member
I'm having a comfort issue lately. :)

I'll preface this by saying - I play matched grip and this thread has everything to do w/ the left hand.

I'm playing with longer sticks these days and I feel like maybe I need to move my snare or change the way I sit. I'm watching a lot of drum videos these days and I'm noticing that some guys like to crack rimshots while playing the stick on the inside of their thigh...hence the "crotch" question. I notice a commonality where many of these guys tilt their snare toward them. Some guys (and this is how I've been playing) play from the outside of the thigh w/ their left hand (or over the leg, I suppose). I see more of this in traditional grip but obviously there are those who do this matched. The common snare angle for these cats is usually flat or tilted away, which is more common w/ traditional grip. My snare is entirely flat...and I feel like my leg gets in the way of my rim shots since I instinctively try to move inward, toward the crotch.

I thought I'd take a poll and get some opinions? Which is it for you? Crotch or thigh? Oh...and the word for the day is "crotch".
 

Nodiggie

Gold Member
hahaha, that's funny.

I have always played from the thigh. It just feels more natural to execute a more powerful Moeller for me. My snare is very slightly tilted toward me, almost flat.

About adjusting your snare:

I always set up with respect to my kick, that never changes. I would move my snare before I would change the way I sit.
 
B

blade123

Guest
You're probably just holding the sticks too close together.
Are they parallel? If so, they are way too close. They should be at an almost 90 degree angle.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
You're probably just holding the sticks too close together.
Are they parallel? If so, they are way too close. They should be at an almost 90 degree angle.
No, I'm holding them properly, I'm not having a technique problem, per se. I'm talking strictly about cracking rimshots. The sweetest, most comfortable rimshot sound is right where my leg/hip is...which requires me bringing my stick inward a little.

I could probably just start hitting rimshots from the outside but that just doesn't feel like the "sweet spot" for me.

I was watching guys like Zoro and Greg Bissonette and noticed that they were coming inward for rimshots as well using matched grip.
 

sbinette

Junior Member
Sorry Guy but you're way overthinking this whole process. I've been playing for over 20 years and have had frequent opportunities to play other drummers' kits. Nothing builds confidence and maturity like being called up onto a stage unexpectedly to sit in on a number with some friends in front of 500 people and play a left handed set when you're a right handed drummer.

I was once called up to sit in with a band who had a very small female drummer. When I sat down the snare was about 2 inches BELOW my knees and the thrown was so low I was nearly on the floor.

You learn to adapt quickly (respect the drummer and adjust nothing) keep what you're doing simple, tight and on time. Walk off, thank the other drummer, compliment the kit and leave the stage.

I'm saying this to highlight that the only advise you need on this issue is no advise. I've never seen 2 drummers set up the same way. So, find your comfortable position...there are no rules and have fun playing by feel.
 

SEVNT7

Senior Member
With respect to everybody's personal choice, and given' that we are all a little different (size & shape). If you have to play rimshots either outside or inside your thigh, I would say that you set your snare to low, and/or you sit to low. You should always be able to hit your snare without infringement from your legs. Check the angle of you're wrist when you strike the drum. It should be straight, not bent up . Try sitting a little higher and raise your snare so when you hit it there is still room to move your leg up and down, without hitting your left hand when it is in the striking position. How do you use Moeller in that position? How do you accept the rebound in the downstroke position if you're leg is in the way? my guess is you're not able to .....I Hope this helps.............Later.....T
 
Last edited:

zambizzi

Platinum Member
With respect to everybody's personal choice, and given' that we are all a little different (size & shape). If you have to play rimshots either outside or inside your thigh, I would say that you set your snare to low, and/or you sit to low. You should always be able to hit your snare without infringement from your legs. Check the angle of you're wrist when you strike the drum. It should be straight, not bent up . Try sitting a little higher and raise your snare so when you hit it there is still room to move your leg up and down, without hitting your left hand when it is in the striking position. How do you use Moeller in that position? How do you accept the rebound in the downstroke position if you're leg is in the way? my guess is you're not able to .....I Hope this helps.............Later.....T
I don't sit too low - my legs are at a slight angle downward so the pedals are easiest to play. My snare sits flat with the rim level with my waist. If I raise it any higher I'd have to shrug or hold my hands up unnaturally...any lower and my ability to hit the rim would be non-existent.

Maybe I didn't describe it or it sounds over-exaggerated...or something. It's not a huge problem and I can *play* rim shots...it just seems to me that the *sweet spot* for hitting them is more in the inside of my thigh and I don't always feel like I have enough room to get the stick in where I want it. I did just go from a 13" snare to a 14" so maybe that skewed my habits a little? I'm using sticks that are more than 1/2" longer than I normally would, also...so maybe I just need to adjust....move the snare an inch outward...something like that.

If I'm laying into the snare I'll Moeller the strokes...mostly when my right hand is on the ride. If I'm playing a little more softly but still want rim shots, I'll use mostly wrist action. I always allow it to rebound...very loose grip.

I'm definitely guilty of not working on my rim shots as much as I should have, over the past two years.

Anyhow, it's not a show-stopper and I'm playing fine, I'm just a little outside of my comfort zone the last few days. I was curious what other folks here prefer, also.

Thanks for the insights.
 

caddywumpus

Platinum Member
I used to do rimshots near the crotch area until that one fateful day.....

*shivers and winces*

.....Now, I do them toward the thigh. It's a little less comfortable for my hand, but a whole lot more comforting for my, um, crotch.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
I used to do rimshots near the crotch area until that one fateful day.....

*shivers and winces*

.....Now, I do them toward the thigh. It's a little less comfortable for my hand, but a whole lot more comforting for my, um, crotch.
Egads...the rest of the band was probably trying to figure out how you got such a high-pitched squeal out of your snare.
 

ZildjianMan1023

Silver Member
hahaha, that's funny.

I have always played from the thigh. It just feels more natural to execute a more powerful Moeller for me. My snare is very slightly tilted toward me, almost flat.

About adjusting your snare:

I always set up with respect to my kick, that never changes. I would move my snare before I would change the way I sit.
agreed, the bass is the inter-sanctum of the drum kit.

i also play from the thigh. i guess its just nautural to do so
 

SEVNT7

Senior Member
I don't sit too low - my legs are at a slight angle downward so the pedals are easiest to play. My snare sits flat with the rim level with my waist. If I raise it any higher I'd have to shrug or hold my hands up unnaturally...any lower and my ability to hit the rim would be non-existent.

Maybe I didn't describe it or it sounds over-exaggerated...or something. It's not a huge problem and I can *play* rim shots...it just seems to me that the *sweet spot* for hitting them is more in the inside of my thigh and I don't always feel like I have enough room to get the stick in where I want it. I did just go from a 13" snare to a 14" so maybe that skewed my habits a little? I'm using sticks that are more than 1/2" longer than I normally would, also...so maybe I just need to adjust....move the snare an inch outward...something like that.

If I'm laying into the snare I'll Moeller the strokes...mostly when my right hand is on the ride. If I'm playing a little more softly but still want rim shots, I'll use mostly wrist action. I always allow it to rebound...very loose grip.

I'm definitely guilty of not working on my rim shots as much as I should have, over the past two years.

Anyhow, it's not a show-stopper and I'm playing fine, I'm just a little outside of my comfort zone the last few days. I was curious what other folks here prefer, also.

Thanks for the insights.
If you're as low as your waist, does that mean your beltline? A good starting point for a good snare hiegtht is your belly botton. If this seems to high maybe your wrist angle at striking point should be re-evaluated. Check out what Chapin says in his video about what a strong and straight wrist should be. It might not be what you expect. Got any pics' of you on your kit hitting the drum, I would like to see them..........................T
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
If you're as low as your waist, does that mean your beltline? A good starting point for a good snare hiegtht is your belly botton. If this seems to high maybe your wrist angle at striking point should be re-evaluated. Check out what Chapin says in his video about what a strong and straight wrist should be. It might not be what you expect. Got any pics' of you on your kit hitting the drum, I would like to see them..........................T
Yes, the edge lines up directly w/ my belt-line. Here's a video of me dinking around just to show where it is. I got nervous with the camera on, for some reason...so it's fairly crappy. It's funny, that first fill goes over the barline accidentally...sweet! ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7xT0iMyWvg

At the end I tried to demonstrate inside and outside of the thigh...and did some free strokes so you could see the wrist angle. My wife shot the video so the angle is bad to begin with.

You know...you may be right...after watching this my snare might be sitting way too low! I'm used to it, I've always had it like this (well, in my whopping 2 yrs. of experience). I've had it higher but never found it very comfortable. I think I could move it away from me a couple of inches too but I don't want to stretch to reach the small tom.
 
D

DamoSyzygy

Guest
Nothing builds confidence and maturity like being called up onto a stage unexpectedly to sit in on a number with some friends in front of 500 people and play a left handed set when you're a right handed drummer.
YES!!!

Ive been there myself and unfortunately the track I had to play was Dream Theater's "Pull Me Under"

Left handed kits become so much harder to play when you have no time to think!
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Since I posted the video, I've moved the snare up and away from me a few inches and it seems comfortable...I'll see how it goes. Thanks again for the advice T!
 

SEVNT7

Senior Member
Yes, the edge lines up directly w/ my belt-line. Here's a video of me dinking around just to show where it is. I got nervous with the camera on, for some reason...so it's fairly crappy. It's funny, that first fill goes over the barline accidentally...sweet! ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7xT0iMyWvg

At the end I tried to demonstrate inside and outside of the thigh...and did some free strokes so you could see the wrist angle. My wife shot the video so the angle is bad to begin with.

You know...you may be right...after watching this my snare might be sitting way too low! I'm used to it, I've always had it like this (well, in my whopping 2 yrs. of experience). I've had it higher but never found it very comfortable. I think I could move it away from me a couple of inches too but I don't want to stretch to reach the small tom.
To me, from the angle of the video. It looks like there are two basic problems here. #1- I think you sit to close to the snare and it makes you cramped. When you strike the drum, the line of your upper arm should be straight down from the top of your shoulder through your elbow . When your upper arm is in this position, your forearm should be parallel to the floor. Elbow to stick tip should be a straight line forming from the bottom of the elbow going under the hand to the tip of the stick. When you get this position correct, you should be about an inch above the center of the snare head in a relaxed position. Now you are in a position of good distance and hight from your snare. #2 The hight of your snare. When your arm is lower then parallel to the floor when you strike a drum, you are loosing some of the natural velocity of the stoke , and you start to push with your tricept muscle. You are using more energy the nessesary. Defeating the idea of Moeller technique and it's natural power. It also looks like the problem I visualized from your first post. your legs are in the way. Raise your snare so when you raise your heals as high as they will go, and keeping the balls of your feet down, there is still room for your hands to hit the snare with no contact problems with your legs. When you play with your legs as a guide for your snare hight, it starts to be a crutch for where the snare is. You must hit the snare freely with your arm with no guide from your legs so you don't depend on the feel of your leg as the bottom of the stroke. You also cannot accept the rebound of a downstroke if your leg is in the way.........Thanks Zam.........Later.......T
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
To me, from the angle of the video. It looks like there are two basic problems here. #1- I think you sit to close to the snare and it makes you cramped. When you strike the drum, the line of your upper arm should be straight down from the top of your shoulder through your elbow . When your upper arm is in this position, your forearm should be parallel to the floor. Elbow to stick tip should be a straight line forming from the bottom of the elbow going under the hand to the tip of the stick. When you get this position correct, you should be about an inch above the center of the snare head in a relaxed position. Now you are in a position of good distance and hight from your snare. #2 The hight of your snare. When your arm is lower then parallel to the floor when you strike a drum, you are loosing some of the natural velocity of the stoke , and you start to push with your tricept muscle. You are using more energy the nessesary. Defeating the idea of Moeller technique and it's natural power. It also looks like the problem I visualized from your first post. your legs are in the way. Raise your snare so when you raise your heals as high as they will go, and keeping the balls of your feet down, there is still room for your hands to hit the snare with no contact problems with your legs. When you play with your legs as a guide for your snare hight, it starts to be a crutch for where the snare is. You must hit the snare freely with your arm with no guide from your legs so you don't depend on the feel of your leg as the bottom of the stroke. You also cannot accept the rebound of a downstroke if your leg is in the way.........Thanks Zam.........Later.......T
Many thanks!

.....................................................
 

SEVNT7

Senior Member
See, this is like one of those conversations that you turn a corner and catch people in...and you hear a line like this, and wonder WTF?
If it's a joke for funin' who cares. If he's serious, then he needs to think more about how he sets up.......T
 
Top