Crosshanded Disadvantages.

Mark_S

Silver Member
Here's a good video showing what it really looks like when a person plays the hihat with the right hand. It often seems that the open handed enthusiasts dislike the idea of right hand crossing over but don't really understand the reality of it.

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/keithcarlockdvdsolo.html

The first words I'd use to describe Keith's stick work aren't "uncomfortable", "constrained", "limited" or "disadvantageous".
+1
If it is that bad then someone better tell Weckl to not switch back from his x-hats to his main hats during a song because he's doing himself a dis-service.... Though I think he's got the nouse to work that out for himself IF it were true.

I hope this doesn't turn into a daft divisive argument like the whole matched/traditional argument. At the end of the day, surely if you've spent enough time on both ways you can then make your own decision.

With all the technology for x-hats these days, we can basically stick 'em where we want, IF we so wish.. but please don't tell me what is and is not comfortable and awkward *for me* and everyone else.

EDIT: Sorry didn't mean to lose my temper there, must be something to do with being at work! Anyway.. it's all groovy man just hit them shiny thangs.. ;-)
 

kettles

Gold Member
I have only ever found cross-handed playing to be annoying when trying to get really loud backbeats. Using my right hand also gives me more freedom as to how I'm hitting - with the tip, shoulder, or on the bell. Because my left is closer to the hats, I can't do the same without having my wrist bent at an awkward angle. I could lower the hats right down, but then I get even more tangled up when crossing over. I'm competent leading with my left for simpler stuff, but I don't think my left hand will ever match my right.
 

\o/

Senior Member
Some great opinions there to give plenty of food for thought. I think i might leave my set up as it is, and try both ways. Seems some open handed playing will help me iron out some independence issues that i'm having at this early stage, such as certain leg following certain hand etc.
 

Mark_S

Silver Member
Some great opinions there to give plenty of food for thought. I think i might leave my set up as it is, and try both ways. Seems some open handed playing will help me iron out some independence issues that i'm having at this early stage, such as certain leg following certain hand etc.
Sounds good - it's slowly dawned on me that to get better and figure these things out you have to just practise one hell of a lot, instead of spending lots of time on the Internet searching to find the one holy-grail way of playing, because I don't think there is one.

I think this is the clip where Derek Roddy sais words to this effect with regards double bass drum technique (I can't check, I'm at work and can't stick the sound on) : -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBnhM-8j7bc
 

Wavelength

Platinum Member
I have only ever found cross-handed playing to be annoying when trying to get really loud backbeats.
Accenting the hi-hat on quarter notes creates a natural "lift" to your lead hand which enables you to play the snare accents as loud as you'll ever need.
 

\o/

Senior Member
Accenting the hi-hat on quarter notes creates a natural "lift" to your lead hand which enables you to play the snare accents as loud as you'll ever need.
What if you don't want to accent the hi-hat though? If you wanted to play really soft hi-hat and quite pronounced snare in a beat it could be tricky. Not discrediting you, just throwing a conundrum out there.
 
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Swiss Matthias

Platinum Member
Here's a good video showing what it really looks like when a person plays the hihat with the right hand. It often seems that the open handed enthusiasts dislike the idea of right hand crossing over but don't really understand the reality of it.

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/keithcarlockdvdsolo.html

The first words I'd use to describe Keith's stick work aren't "uncomfortable", "constrained", "limited" or "disadvantageous".
Exactly! And in this video we clearly see the ADVANTAGE of having the same hand keeping
the same role in the playing (riding cymbals) no matter if it's the hihat or the rides.

If I played open handed I feel I'd have to learn everything twice, one time leading with the
left hand on the hihat, and then leading on the right hand on the ride. Placing my ride(s)
on the left (far left or at normal crash position) would be no option for me.

So I'm perfectly comfortable with playing "crossed over" (which isn't that much crossed
anyway).

By the way I do check out open handed playing for fun from time to time, for example
when I play with my students I often play their stuff open handed just for a change and
a bit of coordination training.
 

Deathmetalconga

Platinum Member
It's funny, I'm having a hard time detecting the limitation that is so obvious to you. Where you see unnatural, awkward, limited drumming, I see the greatest musicians in the world. Really, if you want an unorthodox technique to be accepted, you need to show some results- so far I just see a few mavericks like Cobham and Lenny White, along with some younger chops guys. I don't see a revolution there, and I don't know of any field in the world where you throw out overwhelmingly successful and accepted practices just on somebody's unproven claim of having something new and improved.
The limitation to which I refer is the necessity of installing the hihat on the left in early trap sets. Modern equipment allows the hats to be placed and used anywhere (regardless of custom or inertia).

I see awkward, unnatural crossed playing among the greatest drummers in the world (other musicians play open regardless). The two are not exclusive.

Social inertia, custom and irrationality serve as good enough guides for people, even when they accomplish great things. What I think of crossed playing doesn't limit anyone.

The fact that all crossed drummers put their ride on the right, to play open, is a huge ringing endorsement, to me, for open playing. Crossed players really wish to play open; they just don't know it yet.
 

Swiss Matthias

Platinum Member
The fact that all crossed drummers put their ride on the right, to play open, is a huge ringing endorsement, to me, for open playing. Crossed players really wish to play open; they just don't know it yet.
So assuming you're an open hand player - where do you have your ride?
 
S

sticks4drums

Guest
Well I practiced open handed today, and I do believe it would be a better way to drum. I think I will try and get to the point where I can do either way.
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
I don't think there are any "big" problems with either approach. Crossing over is no big deal. I learned to play open-handed when i started out just because I wanted to gain the coordinative advantages of developing my left hand. I practiced all my patterns riding with both right and left hands.

There are some options that open-handed playing frees up for the right hand but I found them to be of negligible value when applied to real playing situations. Again, I'm speaking only for myself, not any of you. Maybe it's a big difference-maker for you. If so, more power to you and keep doing it. I have the coordination to ride my hats with my left hand and do other things with my right hand if the need arises so I guess I'm a part-time open-hander anyway. You pretty much have to be to play Steve Smith's Don't Stop Believin', right? :)

From my perspective, this is much ado about nothing (or very little, anyway).
 
S

sticks4drums

Guest
I don't think there are any "big" problems with either approach. Crossing over is no big deal. I learned to play open-handed when i started out just because I wanted to gain the coordinative advantages of developing my left hand. I practiced all my patterns riding with both right and left hands.

There are some options that open-handed playing frees up for the right hand but I found them to be of negligible value when applied to real playing situations. Again, I'm speaking only for myself, not any of you. Maybe it's a big difference-maker for you. If so, more power to you and keep doing it. I have the coordination to ride my hats with my left hand and do other things with my right hand if the need arises so I guess I'm a part-time open-hander anyway. You pretty much have to be to play Steve Smith's Don't Stop Believin', right? :)

From my perspective, this is much ado about nothing (or very little, anyway).
I like when you are on here. You have a great way of putting stuff, that makes people feel at ease. It is a skill I hope to master one day. :) What you say makes sense. I would like to get strong enough with my left hand on the hats so that It wouldn't matter how I played. Either hand could do the job.
 

Deathmetalconga

Platinum Member
So assuming you're an open hand player - where do you have your ride?
I have my ride on the left, very close to the hats. And the hats are very close to the snare. I rarely ride or play hats with the right hand - I am as separate in my assigned hand roles as most other drummers.
 

kettles

Gold Member
Accenting the hi-hat on quarter notes creates a natural "lift" to your lead hand which enables you to play the snare accents as loud as you'll ever need.
haha, I like how you assume how loud I need my snare. I don't always like to hammer the hats, often I play them relatively light and constant (without any accent) while slamming the kick and snare.

And for that I just play left hand lead anyway
 

BillBachman

Gold Member
Accenting the hi-hat on quarter notes creates a natural "lift" to your lead hand which enables you to play the snare accents as loud as you'll ever need.
That's pretty much true if you're only trying to smack the snare on the downbeats. What about the "e," "and" and "ah" though?

Centering my hats so that my left hand has total freedom has allowed my vocabulary to open up greatly. When I sit in on somebody else's set where I need to cross for the hats I can still play OK, but I find myself seriously editing what I'd like to say musically since so much of what I now do won't work crossed over. (Or it would at least require an awkward technique change to get it in there).
 

Wavelength

Platinum Member
That's pretty much true if you're only trying to smack the snare on the downbeats. What about the "e," "and" and "ah" though?
I can play any accent pattern on the snare while playing any accent pattern on the hi-hat (within reason and human capabilities). I don't find my hands getting in the way of one another.
 

\o/

Senior Member
I can play any accent pattern on the snare while playing any accent pattern on the hi-hat (within reason and human capabilities). I don't find my hands getting in the way of one another.
I suppose hat height could be a factor in this particular debate?
 

Swiss Matthias

Platinum Member
I have my ride on the left, very close to the hats. And the hats are very close to the snare. I rarely ride or play hats with the right hand - I am as separate in my assigned hand roles as most other drummers.
That makes sense. Some guys play open-handed but have their ride on the right side.
Which is quite absurd to me...
 
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sticks4drums

Guest
Did anyone look at that Randy Black video I put on here about 20 posts earlier. Would love to hear what you think of his style. I don't like the music, just found his style interesting.
 

Too Many Songs

Senior Member
I did. I'm not really sure (apart from perhaps relieving the boredom) as to why you would do that. If he had different voices set up on either side of the kit it would make more musical sense but just a 'mirror'. I don't get it and I think only drummers would appreciate the technical aspect. Was that who he was aiming to impress?

If it was then fair enough he succeeded. He's a master of the instrument and has a capacity to lead with either hand that I can only envy. Shame that that ability is wasted (at least as demonstrated in this video).
 
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