Creativity vs cost of living

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pgm554

pgm554

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Back in the day ,places like LA ,San Fran and NYC produced a plethora of bands.
(Journey ,Huey Lewis ,Doors).
I can't think of many coming out of these cities as national acts anymore.

Looks like Austin and Nashville are the places musicians move because it just costs too much to be a starving musician anymore. .

Any thoughts?



















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I think the music industry is a riches-to-rags story. No one is coming out of anywhere except for TV contest shows. All of the full-time musicians and bands I know are touring like crazy and scraping to get by. Nashville is an expensive place to live (not as bad as LA and NY, but still.). It's a very difficult time to do anything with music right now outside being a famous YouTuber.
 
April 1 was 10 days ago.
I think by 17 years of age you know or decide if music "Music" is going to be your trade in life.

Go back to the days of Kings and Queens. The musician shared a room with the court Jester didn't he?
 
How we socialize and entertain ourselves has changed with technology then COVID has terrified a generation and more change. But we quickly forget over years and are resilient and I predict a wave that harkens to past- like vinyl getting more play now.
 
Cost of living here is really low. The music scene is almost non existent. Whether or not they are related, I dunno.

There arent really many bars or live music venues anyhow. It's mostly clubs on one street by the university. Almost all of them have a DJ.
 
The model may have reversed itself.

In the 60s and 70s, sudden population shift from cities to suburbs -- and the flight on industry first to the cities and second to overseas countries with cheap labor -- left warehouses and other band-friendly spaces available to musicians and artists. Then cities again became popular and overpriced.

Now, with median rents reaching $2,000 per month nationwide, who can afford to form a band and survive on a tiny amount of gig income? Nobody, meaning that the up-and-coming musicians are mostly from one of two groups:

1. Rich kids. So rich that their parents help subsidize their apartments and their lifestyles ... for years. That's why we see increasing numbers of second-generation musicians -- the son of an Allman Brother, the offspring of a movie actor. There's also Taylor Swift's father ... a Merrill Lynch stockbroker who moved his job to Nashville to give her career a boost. Another great example is David Lowy -- the son of an Australian billionaire -- who bankrolled the Dead Daisies, a band that's hired a who's who of musicians -- like Brian Tichy, Glenn Hughes and Doug Aldrich -- and tours on private jets and limos.

2. Swedes. Sweden is among the Nordic (and to a lesser extent European) countries who actively support music education and musicians. Local community centers (like the ones where you might go play basketball in) have rehearsal rooms where musicians can go and practice, store their gear and perform. One of Son of Vistalite's favorite bands, Kvelertak, is from Norway. Oil-rich Norway supports metal bands the way our government(s) support the ballet or the symphony. To help further metal as a cultural export, Norway subsidized Kvelertak's worldwide tours -- which led the band to open for a Metallica tour in about 2018.

So, no, it is not a surprise that with little public investment in music education (and facilities) other countries are bypassing the U.S. in terms of producing young musical groups.
 
At the Aronoff workshop (that I've mentioned a few dozen times) he talked about his situation. Prior to the music industry losing money due to streaming, he lived in Bloomington, IN, and would either drive to Nashville for sessions, or fly to LA or NY for sessions. He loved it 'cuz Bloomington was his home and is a beautiful town.

When he saw the money drying up, he knew he had to make a decision: either Nashville or Los Angeles. He chose LA. I asked him if he felt the made the right decision. "Absolutely", and he talked about getting involved in gigs like the Oscars, Grammies, Obama's presidential inauguration, and how he felt more "in the mix" of pro musician work. The guy is 100% hustle with a pro attitude.

But me? No thanks. I grew up in San Diego and have been repulsed by Los Angeles all my life. First it was the smog, then the incessant urban creep, and now the apparent inherent narcissism that many have just to survive there.
 
Wouldn’t it be cool if you had a class in high school that basically made you add-up the things you would need to live comfortably and pair up that number with the proper profession to acquire it? I know we had Home Ec but even in my day, the class was disappearing and I don’t even know if they did such a bleak comparison study.
 
Hopefully , from the past three years , we are able to recognize the difference between cost of living and quality of life .

" can't do the things I want to cause that's what money's for
do the things I don't want, gonna cost me even more " ..... Climax Blues Band

Necessity is the mother of invention and resourceful, creative thinking an ace up the sleeve of individual thought .
 
Bo Eder said:
Wouldn’t it be cool if you had a class in high school that basically made you add-up the things you would need to live comfortably and pair up that number with the proper profession to acquire it? I know we had Home Ec but even in my day, the class was disappearing and I don’t even know if they did such a bleak comparison study.
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Exactly. How much time wasted on algebra or calculus could instead by spent on 'How much a car (or a house) costs when you have an 800 credit score vs. 650?'
 
Bo Eder said:
Wouldn’t it be cool if you had a class in high school that basically made you add-up the things you would need to live comfortably and pair up that number with the proper profession to acquire it? I know we had Home Ec but even in my day, the class was disappearing and I don’t even know if they did such a bleak comparison study.
Click to expand...
I dig the concept though I fear what one person needs to "live comfortably" varies greatly from one person to the next depending on where you live ex. rural Louisiana vs Boston, someone who is happy to drive a simple old car vs a person who wants a late model shiny big ride.

Not to mention by the time the student has graduated school and established themselves in the working world their local economy and business model may have changed since the instructions given in school. 2008 market, dot com, housing bubble Et al.

Music schools really need to be the one's preparing students to understand personal and business finance along with all the other courses offered. Accounting would probably be the best subject to study outside of music.
 
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Jeremy Bender said:
I dig the concept and not to be an antagonist I fear what one person needs to "live comfortably" varies greatly from one person to the next depending on where you live ex. rural Louisiana vs Boston, someone who is happy to drive a simple old car vs a person who wants a late model shiny big ride.

Not to mention by the time the student has graduated school and established themselves in the working world their local economy and business model may have changed since the instructions given in school. 2008 market, dot com, housing bubble Et al.

Music schools really need to be the one's preparing students to understand personal and business finance along with all the other courses offered. Accounting would probably be the best subject to study outside of music.
Click to expand...
Well, my statement takes what the student needs into account because they’re deciding how they want to live. But I think the depression would set in after notating what rent (mortgage), health insurances, and utilities would cost. Forget about saving up for that new iPhone or the $300 tennis shoes 😉
 
Working musicians will go where the money is simple as.

You'd think with the state of the world there would be some amazing music coming to the forefront. What the hell happened to kids rebelling!

Another huge problem is nobody buys music in large enough quantities nowadays.
 
The whole music ecosystem has been thrown on its head over the past 20 years or so. Streaming/Napster etc. killed off the "record deal" as was known for decades and money started drying up for all but the largest acts BUT there were some clubs left, tours to hitch a ride on etc. but steadily over time the residuals and "album sales" dried up to the point we are at now. Toss in the "full stop" of the pandemic and now we have "big artists" who need to put out new music to have something to play on tour as they make their $ now on tour, previously it was you made an album/record and then toured to drive sales of said record to make your team money.

Toss in the fact that with technology the way it is, you technically don't need a "record deal" or backing and can release your own stuff on all the same outlets and if you hustle enough and cut out all the middle men, you can make a decent artist living. Not Joe Walsh "Life's Been Good" type of living but still.....

Another outcome of the pandemic was that every working drummer built out a home studio of decent quality which was a perfect intersection of inexpensive tech and opportunity. The outcome of which is the market is so saturated with good drummers that will record a drum track that it is laughable. I see drummers with grammy's to their name charging $100-200/song.......that is sad.

Even the gigs like I had for years in a fairly successful and busy wedding band are drying up. Through most of the 2000s I would pocket $800-1500 per wedding gig and would be booked with 3-4 per month from April through October.......but now my non-music career has bloomed as I mentioned in the "Day Job" thread here on DW......so thankfully I don't HAVE to make money from music any longer......it is a tough tough way to earn a primary living especially if you want a balanced family life of any type it can be damn near impossible.
 
River19 said:
The whole music ecosystem has been thrown on its head over the past 20 years or so. Streaming/Napster etc. killed off the "record deal" as was known for decades and money started drying up for all but the largest acts BUT there were some clubs left, tours to hitch a ride on etc. but steadily over time the residuals and "album sales" dried up to the point we are at now. Toss in the "full stop" of the pandemic and now we have "big artists" who need to put out new music to have something to play on tour as they make their $ now on tour, previously it was you made an album/record and then toured to drive sales of said record to make your team money.

Toss in the fact that with technology the way it is, you technically don't need a "record deal" or backing and can release your own stuff on all the same outlets and if you hustle enough and cut out all the middle men, you can make a decent artist living. Not Joe Walsh "Life's Been Good" type of living but still.....

Another outcome of the pandemic was that every working drummer built out a home studio of decent quality which was a perfect intersection of inexpensive tech and opportunity. The outcome of which is the market is so saturated with good drummers that will record a drum track that it is laughable. I see drummers with grammy's to their name charging $100-200/song.......that is sad.

Even the gigs like I had for years in a fairly successful and busy wedding band are drying up. Through most of the 2000s I would pocket $800-1500 per wedding gig and would be booked with 3-4 per month from April through October.......but now my non-music career has bloomed as I mentioned in the "Day Job" thread here on DW......so thankfully I don't HAVE to make money from music any longer......it is a tough tough way to earn a primary living especially if you want a balanced family life of any type it can be damn near impossible.
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I agree.

When I read posts & articles with this POV, I think guys like Deadmau5 have it pretty good. Make your music in a great mixing room, hire smart people to make & program an amazing light show-Cube platfrom, and perform to thousands using a DJ box. (I make it sound easy, but these guys work hard at what they do).

www.zipdj.com

The 10 Highest Paid DJs In The World

Find out who made the list of the top 10 highest paid DJs in 2024. Explore their impressive paychecks and record-breaking accomplishments in DJing & music.
www.zipdj.com www.zipdj.com
 
cbphoto said:
I agree.

When I read posts & articles with this POV, I think guys like Deadmau5 have it pretty good. Make your music in a great mixing room, hire smart people to make & program an amazing light show-Cube platfrom, and perform to thousands using a DJ box. (I make it sound easy, but these guys work hard at what they do).

www.zipdj.com

The 10 Highest Paid DJs In The World

Find out who made the list of the top 10 highest paid DJs in 2024. Explore their impressive paychecks and record-breaking accomplishments in DJing & music.
www.zipdj.com www.zipdj.com
Click to expand...

Yup. And they control a LOT of the finished product.

Let's be clear here I was somewhat backed into chasing the last of the decent money available to me in music. The original band scene was "fine" in college when just getting to play and open for big bands was cool and we made peanuts and maybe free beers. But that "peanuts" kept actually getting smaller......then the whole smattering of "pay to play" and "sell 50% of the tix" crap.

I fell into the wedding thing where it was like "wait, how many songs? 200+? OK, buy a tux?......and we get paid how much?" Hell yes. And it was cool. And my friends in original bands eating ramen laughed at me. As I would sit with the band and the wedding photographer eating our rubber chicken getting ready to play YMCA 4x's I would smile knowing I was at least getting paid. But those gigs are even hard to come by now.

I give tons of credit to the guys out there hustling for every $ they can through music......but it sucks that so many talented people can't make a decent living doing what they love......but the economic reality is what it is right now.......
 
Well I'l chime in with this:
I grew up in Wester New York. I moved to Los Angeles in 2009 to advance my career. I tried NYC first as it was much closer and I could still visit family for holiday, however the environment wasn't as accommodating to working musicians. My drums stayed stacked up in my closet and every venue and studio had backing. I had to bring my breakables all over town, and taking a cymbal bag/pedals/snare/sticks in and out of cabs, subways and up and down flights of stairs in old buildings wasn't awesome.

Los Angeles provided more of the style of music that I was after, straight ahead rock, nothing fancy, as well as a much easier time with gear transportation. I've been here now for 14 years, so I think I made the right move. However post-pandemic a lot has changed. Many many musicians left in 2020 for places like Nashville, Austin, and Vegas. Cost of living and local politics have played a huge factor in the mass exodus.
California actually outlawed musicians from working as independent contractors in January 2020. This was a huge blow to people like myself and caused many of us to lose gigs even before the world shut down. The law has since been walked back some, but still.

I have been entertaining the idea of making another huge move, this time to Nashville. I've been there the last couple years, and have had no trouble making connections and even landing some session work while there. It's very welcoming to live musicians in particular. The studio scene isn't just a bunch of "producers" who are programing every instrument and having some singer just karaoke over it like they do in LA. Every venue is filled with bands playing all day and all night, not DJ's who are just using a laptop.
It's a hot topic in my house right now, and it seems like it could happen in the next couple years if not sooner.
Don't get me wrong, I love LA, and I really want it to work here, but it's getting harder and harder to justify why I stay. Most of the gigs I have are with bands that have members scattered in other areas anyway, and no matter what someone's gotta jump on a plane to kick off the tour. I do a large amount of Recording Session work, however it's all remote. I haven't stepped into a "real" studio in over 2 years, yet I'm tracking constantly. So that can be relocated to anyplace with ease. And as for my teaching practice, that I would have to start all over, I don't like it, but I have done it before when I moved to LA, and it's also the smallest portion of my income.
 
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