Cream's Ginger Baker trashes legends in Classic Rock Magazine, Issue #142, March 2010

jon e rotten

Senior Member
Re: Cream's Ginger Baker trashes legends in Classic Rock Magazine, Issue #142, March

@jon e rotten, right, he's only ever fully enraged screaming profanities about other musicians. I don't need to know him to know that's true because I can see otherwise in various other interviews, performances, documentaries, biographies, etc. What, you couldn't figure that out? Or do you truly believe that what you see on TV or read in a magazine is the only side to all reality?
Hey, just sayin, sometimes where there's smoke there's fire, that's all. And yes, I form an opinion and never stray, even when confronted with contradictory evidence.
 
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motojt

Guest
Re: Cream's Ginger Baker trashes legends in Classic Rock Magazine, Issue #142, March

Hey, just sayin, sometimes where there's smoke there's fire, that's all. And yes, I form an opinion and never stray, even when confronted with contradictory evidence.
Sometimes there's a lush green forest until some ass hat starts a fire to clear the way for a strip mall. Congrats on your determination though. ;)
 

Michael McDanial

Senior Member
Re: Cream's Ginger Baker trashes legends in Classic Rock Magazine, Issue #142, March

That's because you don't understand it. No one is saying that the 5 year old kid is more technically skilled than Bonham, but his style may be more appealing to some than Bonham's. Get it? If you ask a non-drummer pop-rock fan, "Who's better, Travis Barker or Buddy Rich?" Guess who's better to him? If you ask me who's better, Joe Morello or Buddy Rich, I'll say Joe. Get it? Do you get it yet? Better IS subjective. Look it up. Now start rephrasing your question. Don't ask, "Who's better," or "Who's the best?" Ask, "Who is more diverse, technically proficient, faster, whatever."

As for the Ginger Baker comment, have you met him? Are you buddies with him? Have you known him personally for his whole life? The reason you only ever hear bad things about him is that's what the media likes to publish because that's what people like to read. No one is going to read an interview where he just talks about loving his horses, or how happy he was to be playing with his idols in the 50's and 60's. People ask him the questions they need to get the reaction the want to print. It's sensationalism plain and simple.
Wow, you need to take a chill pill and relax. No, I don't get how somebody picking up sticks for the first time and banging away on a drum kit without any idea of what they're doing can be compared with John Bonham, but that's just me. Just because I feel that way doesn't mean you have to agree with me, so get off your attack mode and chill out.

As for Ginger, I'm just saying what I've seen from him in interviews he's done and what people who have known him have said about him. Nobody forced him to make those remarks, and if he's going to bite every time an interviewer asks him something to try and get a negative reaction, then that's his fault. It's like me complaining about losing my temper because my students are doing things to provoke me. I have to be smarter than them and keep my cool. If I lose my temper and they get the reaction they want then that's my fault. He has a choice in what he wants to say. If they were simply printing false quotes, then that would be a different story. I don't deny that the media loves to print negative things, but what about people who have had interviews with nice things being said? I have certainly read a lot of interviews where musicians talk about playing with their idols and things like that. I remember reading an interview with Stevie Ray Vaughan where he talked about playing with Albert King. So is it just a big conspiracy aimed at painting Ginger in a negative light?

I simply said that from what I have seen, he doesn't seem like a very happy person. I didn't say "this is the way Ginger is because I know him personally" which is the way you're making it out.
 

Gethsemane

Member
Re: Cream's Ginger Baker trashes legends in Classic Rock Magazine, Issue #142, March

I simply said that from what I have seen, he doesn't seem like a very happy person. I didn't say "this is the way Ginger is because I know him personally" which is the way you're making it out.
I read about him in Rolling Stone and he seems like a very angry grumpy man. Hasn't he been pissed at the rest of Cream for years? He basically packed up and moved to South Africa because he doesn't want to live with anyone else. It's not like he is doing any charity work or anything. My understanding is that he is a hermit. I agree, he seems like a very unhappy person.
 
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motojt

Guest
Re: Cream's Ginger Baker trashes legends in Classic Rock Magazine, Issue #142, March

Wow, you need to take a chill pill and relax. No, I don't get how somebody picking up sticks for the first time and banging away on a drum kit without any idea of what they're doing can be compared with John Bonham, but that's just me. Just because I feel that way doesn't mean you have to agree with me, so get off your attack mode and chill out.
Dude, I'm cool as a cucumber. I'm not attacking anyone, I'm on defense. At least now you're acknowledging an opinion isn't factual. Another example? While Travis Barker is a "pro," and millions of people think he's the "best drummer ever," I honestly think my wife's idiot brother in-law who's played around on a kit a few times ever is a shit ton better drummer than he is. ;)

It's like me complaining about losing my temper because my students are doing things to provoke me. I have to be smarter than them and keep my cool.
Actually, no you don't. You're free to do whatever you want, just like Ginger. Also, he's not losing his temper, he's just calmly, matter-of-factually saying these things in the interviews I've seen. He seems to believe what he's saying, and it's perfectly acceptable because he's entittled to his opinions just like you are.

If they were simply printing false quotes, then that would be a different story. I don't deny that the media loves to print negative things, but what about people who have had interviews with nice things being said? ... So is it just a big conspiracy aimed at painting Ginger in a negative light?
Your words, man, not mine. Maybe you only read the interviews with big attention grabbing titles like, "Ginger is the scum of the Earth! We have proof!!!" Personally, I've seen a lot of interviews with him laughing and joking. Others where he talks about the joy of being able to meet his jazz idols and being asked to jam with them. About the good times he had with the GBO and Cream as a whole. And even though "Wee Jack" gets on his nerves from time to time he speaks very highly of him an Eric. To me and many others he seems like a cool, down to Earth, very likeable dude. He's got character. He's not a bullshitter like 99.9% of everyone else out there. My advice is to read and/or watch more before forming an opinion from a few similar sources.

Now here's the weird part. In your own words when talking about how there's no way anyone could think an amatuer (or someone who picked up sticks for the first time as you put it) would be better than Bonham, you said something about not having to sugar coat things because someone is too thin-skinned to handle someone else's opinion. So, uh, you expect Ginger Baker, and/or musicians to do what you won't? <cough/> pot calling the kettle black <cough/>
 
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motojt

Guest
Re: Cream's Ginger Baker trashes legends in Classic Rock Magazine, Issue #142, March

Hasn't he been pissed at the rest of Cream for years? He basically packed up and moved to South Africa because he doesn't want to live with anyone else.
Uh, no and no. He's not pissed at Cream. He'd always been in contact with Eric throughout the years, and he's always had an on again off again friendship with Jack ever since GBO. He moved to South Africa because he likes it there. His money probably goes a lot further there as well. Also, he's always been influenced by African music and he jams with the locals. There's a few youtube videos of said jam sessions. Just because someone's chosen lifestyle isn't similar to your own doesn't mean it's wrong.
 

Michael McDanial

Senior Member
Re: Cream's Ginger Baker trashes legends in Classic Rock Magazine, Issue #142, March

Dude, I'm cool as a cucumber. I'm not attacking anyone, I'm on defense. At least now you're acknowledging an opinion isn't factual. Another example? While Travis Barker is a "pro," and millions of people think he's the "best drummer ever," I honestly think my wife's idiot brother in-law who's played around on a kit a few times ever is a shit ton better drummer than he is. ;)
I never said that an opinion was fact. That's you twisting my words. I said that I felt the same way as Matt and Average on the subject. I never said "This is fact and you have to agree with me". That's what you twisted them into.

Actually, no you don't. You're free to do whatever you want, just like Ginger. Also, he's not losing his temper, he's just calmly, matter-of-factually saying these things in the interviews I've seen. He seems to believe what he's saying, and it's perfectly acceptable because he's entittled to his opinions just like you are.
Of course he's entitled to his opinion. I never said he wasn't or that he's wrong for what he said. What I said is that he seems to come across as a grump to me because in the interviews of his that I have read, he seems to be very negative. That gave me the impression that he was not a very happy person. I never said "Ginger is wrong for saying these things."


Your words, man, not mine. Maybe you only read the interviews with big attention grabbing titles like, "Ginger is the scum of the Earth! We have proof!!!" Personally, I've seen a lot of interviews with him laughing and joking. Others where he talks about the joy of being able to meet his jazz idols and being asked to jam with them. About the good times he had with the GBO and Cream as a whole. And even though "Wee Jack" gets on his nerves from time to time he speaks very highly of him an Eric. To me and many others he seems like a cool, down to Earth, very likeable dude. He's got character. He's not a bullshitter like 99.9% of everyone else out there. My advice is to read and/or watch more before forming an opinion from a few similar sources.
Like I said, it was from what I have seen. That's all I can base my opinion on. You were the one who made it out as though I was saying that I personally know Ginger and that's the way he is. So again, you took my words out of context. If there are other interviews out there where he says a lot of positive things, great. But I hadn't seen them, so that's why I said that he seemed like a grump to me, because opinion is based off of what you have seen. That's why opinions can change. Maybe down the road you'll see something different. But that doesn't mean that somebody doesn't have a right to have an opinion on anything unless they know absolutely everything about it. You just have to be willing to take in other things that may change your opinion.

Now here's the weird part. In your own words when talking about how there's no way anyone could think an amatuer (or someone who picked up sticks for the first time as you put it) would be better than Bonham, you said something about not having to sugar coat things because someone is too thin-skinned to handle someone else's opinion. So, uh, you expect Ginger Baker, and/or musicians to do what you won't? <cough/> pot calling the kettle black <cough/>
Again, I never said that Ginger was wrong for what he said. I said that from the interviews I've read he doesn't seem to come across as a happy person. You were the one who was saying that the media purposely tries to get him to make negative comments in interviews. In other words, that Ginger is being unfairly treated in the media. So I said that you can't blame the interviewer for what he said. They asked the question and he answered it. Don't make him out to be a victim, that's all I'm saying.

Ginger's opinions don't bother me one bit. I just felt that from what I have seen from him in interviews that he seemed like a grumpy person. That was what I said. You're the one trying to make it out like I said that Ginger is wrong for what he said. That's just you twisting my words again.

I say: "Ginger doesn't seem like a very happy guy from his interviews that I've seen"

You twist this into: "Ginger is wrong for what he said" which, of course, is not what I said, so stop twisting my words and calling me a hypocrite.

So are we cleared up now?
 
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motojt

Guest
Re: Cream's Ginger Baker trashes legends in Classic Rock Magazine, Issue #142, March

My apologies, dude. I probably got you mixed up with someone else or crossed a bunch of negative posts together and only singled you out. For the record, I wasn't implying you knew GB, I was just asking rhetorically as sarcasm. I'm funny that way. ;)

But yeah, sorry for the mixup.
 

Michael McDanial

Senior Member
Re: Cream's Ginger Baker trashes legends in Classic Rock Magazine, Issue #142, March

My apologies, dude. I probably got you mixed up with someone else or crossed a bunch of negative posts together and only singled you out. For the record, I wasn't implying you knew GB, I was just asking rhetorically as sarcasm. I'm funny that way. ;)

But yeah, sorry for the mixup.
Apology accepted :)

I know your comment was meant as a sarcastic remark. What pissed me off about it was that it was implying that I had no right to say that Ginger seemed like a grumpy person because I don't know him personally. Even though I'm basing my opinion off things that he has said himself in interviews.

Look, I understand that when something happens that brings down heat on a musician that's a personal favorite, it can make you defensive. Ginger is one of my favorite rock drummers, but overall is not high on my favorites list because I mostly listen to jazz and Latin drummers. Ironically, I really don't care for his jazz material and much prefer his rock drumming, even though he mainly plays jazz and I mainly listen to jazz. Strange, huh?

Buddy Rich is one of my favorite drummers. Many people think that Buddy was a total jerk. Fans, fellow musicians, etc. There are a lot of stories out there, both good and bad, about Buddy from people that knew him, played with him, or met him. Buddy was also a guy who complimented some drummers and slagged others. You know what? I don't care about any of it because at the end of the day Buddy is still one of my favorite drummers to watch and listen to. Same thing goes for Ginger Baker. His comments don't bother me because no matter what kind of things he said, it doesn't change the fact that he's still one of my favorite rock drummers.
 
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motojt

Guest
Re: Cream's Ginger Baker trashes legends in Classic Rock Magazine, Issue #142, March

@Michael, I went back and read and bit and I think I just misread your comment that got me riled up. Also, let me point out that while I tend to get rough in debates, it's never personal for me (unless someone calls me a twat). I can rant and rave with someone for 100 pages in one thread and joke with them in another. And I'll do the same thing in person: argue with you for an hour and a half then buy you a beer and a burger come lunch time.

Now then, you twat, what was that about grumpy ole Ginger's jazz skills?! ;) Yeah, I'm not too keen on his work in that field either. On the few tracks I've heard he sounded kinda blah yet busy. I don't know if he was better in the 50's and 60's, but all I can say is it's a good thing he got into rock. I'm still stuck on Joe Morello for my jazz drumming fix.
 

Michael G

Silver Member
Re: Cream's Ginger Baker trashes legends in Classic Rock Magazine, Issue #142, March

I get my jazz fix from Ginger Baker, good thing Joe never did drum battles so Ginger didn't have to embarrass him.

Come to think of it, it really is a shame Joe never part took in drum battles..At least ones that are recorded anyway.
 

Strangelove

Gold Member
Re: Cream's Ginger Baker trashes legends in Classic Rock Magazine, Issue #142, March

It's just another attempt by GB to elevate himself to the level of BR. Buddy Rich trashed his share of drummers/musicians/bands that didn't deserve trashing, either.
 

Tim Waterson

WFD ACEDRUMMER
Re: Cream's Ginger Baker trashes legends in Classic Rock Magazine, Issue #142, March

I get my jazz fix from Ginger Baker, good thing Joe never did drum battles so Ginger didn't have to embarrass him.

Come to think of it, it really is a shame Joe never part took in drum battles..At least ones that are recorded anyway.
PLEASE tell me your Not talking about MASTER drummer Joe Morello.
Tim
 

Michael McDanial

Senior Member
Re: Cream's Ginger Baker trashes legends in Classic Rock Magazine, Issue #142, March

I get my jazz fix from Ginger Baker, good thing Joe never did drum battles so Ginger didn't have to embarrass him.

Come to think of it, it really is a shame Joe never part took in drum battles..At least ones that are recorded anyway.
Wow, you really think Ginger would destroy Joe Morello? I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. I think Joe is a master drummer who is very underrated. I don't know if he would make my top 10 of personal favorites, but he is an all-time great. I think Joe's absence in drum battles may have caused some people to think that he is not all that great. But don't kid yourself, Joe can play with the absolute best of them.
 
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