Crash/Ride what's the point?

thelimpingtoad

Senior Member
Okay... i've been playing for about 15 years and I have never quite understood what the point of a crash/ride is... i have always had a crash... and a ride...
My thought on the subject was that this was a type of cymbal you get with your starter set just so your parents, or you, only have to buy one cymbal instead of 2... but i'm wondering if this is incorrect.
When i got my kit... that was my concept so i got a single large crash for it until i could afford a ride... a few months later I got a ride... and I've never had one of these crash/rides.
If someone could clarify for me what exactly the point is... instead of just having a crash and a ride... that would be spectactular.
 

justjim

Senior Member
:D

I'm not even sure we should call them (starter kit) "cymbals" - more like placeholders for cymbals


but anyway, I think one way to approach the thinking about a crash/ride is "-able" or maybe "friendly"

a ride cymbal that is (reasonably) crashABLE or a crash that is ride FRIENDLY (and I think that sort of a whole continuum of behavior)

So, in that mode of thought, what we are really talking about is performance in that transitional area...say where you are aggressively accenting a ride pattern by, essentially, crashing the accents or or "playing into a crash" with mult-stroke pattern -- generally where you want to straddle the line, but keep things tonally cohesive by having things happen on the same instrument (the one cymbal)



Think about it like a sportscar -- it's not a touring car with a smooth, comfortable ride for the duration - a boulevard ride...and it's not a racecar that is extremely fast on the track, but has improper spring rates, ground clearance, etc for the street
it's a sports car -- it is relatively nimble, responds well to aggressive technique, but is also decently well behaved, smooth and flexible enough to ride on the street.
 

Drums&Beer

Senior Member
In my experiences most of the cymbals from the major manufacturers that are labeled crash/ride are not at all as versatile as their makers claim them to be. They are either a bit more of a crash or a bit more of a ride. I had an A crash/ride a while ago that I was borrowing from a friend that was down-right horrible.

Over the past few years I have sold most of my Zildjian cymbals and replaced them with various Turkish made cymbals. In the ride department, I have several Bosphorus pieces from their Masters series that double up really well as both crashes and rides. Keep in mind though that I use them in combos that are either lightly amplified or all together acoustic. None of these cymbals are actually labeled crash/rides, they are what they are - thin, expressive, beautifully hammered B20 bronze cymbals.
 

thelimpingtoad

Senior Member
So, in that mode of thought, what we are really talking about is performance in that transitional area...say where you are aggressively accenting a ride pattern by, essentially, crashing the accents or or "playing into a crash" with mult-stroke pattern -- generally where you want to straddle the line, but keep things tonally cohesive by having things happen on the same instrument (the one cymbal).
Okay... that's cool... that's kind of what I'm wondering like real life uses for crash/ride...
And is it something that a mid to pro-level drummer would ever really use in a performance or is it as I thought... just something that you get so you can have dual functionality of one cymbal because its cheaper?
Are there any songs that anyone knows where the drummer uses them to do something that isn't just as easy with a ride and a crash?
 

dairyairman

Platinum Member
if you listen to modern rock or go to rock clubs around town you see that drummers crash ride their cymbals all the time. in other words, they play an eighth note ride pattern on their cymbals but they hit them on the edge with the shoulder of their stick. it's so common i've seen some drummers do that almost exclusively. personally, i think crash riding is overused and tiresome after a while. i do it myself sometimes, but my ride cymbal is too big and heavy to crash ride effectively, so i do it with one my larger crash cymbals. if i had a crash/ride cymbal i might use it for that.

i assume crash/ride cymbals are especially designed for that purpose, especially the ones targeting rock drummers. i assume they're designed for crash ride playing.
 

TTNW

Pioneer Member
The Foo Fighters hit "The Pretender" is a great example of a song that has great crash riding. The chorus changes up from bell riding to crash riding.

Travis Barker is noted for liking the Zildjian A Sweet Ride as a crash ride. So lots of Blink 182 stuff has good examples of crash riding.

Aaron Gillespie and Zac Farro both crash ride the crap out of their cymbals.
Zak Starkey crash rides the new 21 and 22 inch K Crash rides on gigs with the Who.

Crashing your ride works a little better when the ride is a bit thinner.
Riding your crash is a little easier.

I like crash riding my beefier crash cymbals. Right now my favorite crash ride is my Zildjian 18" A Medium Crash. For conventional stick hits and bell sounds, it's a little weak but I don't rely on it for that.
 

thelimpingtoad

Senior Member
if you listen to modern rock or go to rock clubs around town you see that drummers crash ride their cymbals all the time. in other words, they play an eighth note ride pattern on their cymbals but they hit them on the edge with the shoulder of their stick. it's so common i've seen some drummers do that almost exclusively. personally, i think crash riding is overused and tiresome after a while. i do it myself sometimes, but my ride cymbal is too big and heavy to crash ride effectively, so i do it with one my larger crash cymbals. if i had a crash/ride cymbal i might use it for that.

i assume crash/ride cymbals are especially designed for that purpose, especially the ones targeting rock drummers. i assume they're designed for crash ride playing.
Yeah... I've seen this too... but why not just do this with a big crash cymbal? seems silly to make the crash/ride combo... i dunno... i play an old 22" zildjian ping ride so obviously i couldn't do that on there... but i could get away with it on my 18" paiste crash... i personally don't really like that sound so i never really do it...
 

thelimpingtoad

Senior Member
The Foo Fighters hit "The Pretender" is a great example of a song that has great crash riding. The chorus changes up from bell riding to crash riding.

Travis Barker is noted for liking the Zildjian A Sweet Ride as a crash ride. So lots of Blink 182 stuff has good examples of crash riding.

Aaron Gillespie and Zac Farro both crash ride the crap out of their cymbals.
Zak Starkey crash rides the new 21 and 22 inch K Crash rides on gigs with the Who.
I'll have to look into those... thanks for the real examples of songs that people actually use them. So i guess its not really a replacement for a ride cymbal like i always thought... i mean you'd still want a full ride... and a crash/ride... and crashes... so i guess i don't really see why it seems they sell those to people just starting out.
 

TTNW

Pioneer Member
You were correct in your OP. It's cheaper and easier to include a so called "crash ride" with an entry level kit than two separate cymbals.

I want to try the new Z3 Thrash Ride. I've heard you can put up a wall of sound with it and it sounds good.
 

dairyairman

Platinum Member
Yeah... I've seen this too... but why not just do this with a big crash cymbal? seems silly to make the crash/ride combo... i dunno... i play an old 22" zildjian ping ride so obviously i couldn't do that on there... but i could get away with it on my 18" paiste crash... i personally don't really like that sound so i never really do it...
yeah, that's what i do. i just pound away on my crash cymbals to get the same effect. the problem i've had with crash riding crash cymbals is that they're so light they bounce all over the place if you try to crash ride them too hard. a heavier, larger diameter cymbal like a crash ride or lighter ride would probably work better for that purpose, and would make more of continuous crash sound rather than a "crash crash crash" sound. but i like my HH raw bell dry ride too much to replace it with a crash ride and i'm too lazy to set up two ride cymbals, so i just use my biggest crash cymbal.
 

donv

Silver Member
There's also a trend among some drummers to pursue a "minimalist" mindset to playing, and the crash-ride cymbal suits their goals. Then there's the cocktail kit, high school concert bands that use marching cymbals for crashes, the percussionist or hand drummer looking for variety in a different way then the kit drummer does. This is all about preference. Why would someone want an A or AAX when then can get a K or HH? Why would anyone want any of the above when they can get Signatures? Just playing devils advocate here. I understand why everyone has their own preference.
 

dairyairman

Platinum Member
There's also a trend among some drummers to pursue a "minimalist" mindset to playing, and the crash-ride cymbal suits their goals.
that's absolutely true. a typical modern rock setup is a four piece kit with hats and two large crash or crash/ride cymbals. i see these younger drummers crashing or crashing riding their cymbals, sometimes violently, but never ever riding them with the tips of their sticks. call me old fashioned, but i still have a regular ride cymbal and i hit it with the tip of my stick.
 

justjim

Senior Member
Yeah... I've seen this too... but why not just do this with a big crash cymbal? seems silly to make the crash/ride combo... i dunno.
Like drums&beer was pointing to - I wouldn't get too hung up on the designations* --
and I do think labeling em "crash/ride" can sometimes give people a "one size fits all" or "it's a REPLACEMENT for both" which doesn't have to be the case

(* You know what the difference between Benadryl allegery medication and sleepinal insomnia medication is?...the label -- the side effect of one is the therapeutic effect of the other -- Is it a ride that makes a decent crash? is it a crash that rides? is it a crash ride? a little scotch-brite can change that ! :D )


One way to think about is more a cymbal that can operate in that transitional area as opposed to playing everything all the time (just like a sportscar isn't good to drive across the country so you can then race it at Willow Springs)

"hey! ths is neither fish nor fowl!?!?"
"Correct, it's pork!"
kind of thing


they don't really have to be (they can be, but they don't have to be) -- they can also be adjunct cymbals -- IN ADDITION to other cymbals..so in that configuration they ain't really cheaper

Like with your 22, OK that doesn't operate in the crashing zone very well, but you could run another smaller cymbal next to it that crashes and rides for that more agro riding or crashing -- you might be fine there or you might even want to run another really fast crash/splash or maybe you have the sizzle/rivet ride and then a drier ride and want some extra crashabiity out of one of those or something else...it just depends on individual config

[FWIW - I kinda dig the Sabian manhattan 18 up against the manhattan 22 and 20 for that reason -- the bigger two are pretty smooth, but for a more aggressive, crashable cymbal that you can also pull a touchy ride on the 18 is a nice compliment - if it didn't have some of that, I wouldn't like it as much]
 

caddywumpus

Platinum Member
if you listen to modern rock or go to rock clubs around town you see that drummers crash ride their cymbals all the time. in other words, they play an eighth note ride pattern on their cymbals but they hit them on the edge with the shoulder of their stick. it's so common i've seen some drummers do that almost exclusively. personally, i think crash riding is overused and tiresome after a while. i do it myself sometimes, but my ride cymbal is too big and heavy to crash ride effectively, so i do it with one my larger crash cymbals. if i had a crash/ride cymbal i might use it for that.

i assume crash/ride cymbals are especially designed for that purpose, especially the ones targeting rock drummers. i assume they're designed for crash ride playing.
Crash/Rides have been around for a lot longer than the current crash-riding "fad". The purpose was to take the pingyness of a ride cymbal and the crashability of a crash cymbal and combine them into one instrument. I have never played one that I liked. There's never enough of either cymbals' quality to make it sound good as either one or the other. I prefer to pick out cymbals that I like the sounds of: ride cymbals that I can crash and shank, and crash cymbals that I can play a ride pattern on if I want.
 

freebirdgdw

Silver Member
All I basically do in the majority of my playing is hi-hats or crash-ride. I use a minimal set up with hats, crash and a ride (to crash ride) and maybe a china. The advantage of using a ride to crash is because of the big, washy noise they make. More of a constant wall of sound. Whereas I find when riding an actual crash, each hit is very distinguishable. So instead of a steady wall of sound behind your beat, it's individual hits, 'TSH, TSH, TSH, TSH' etc
 

ChipJohns

Senior Member
Back in 1981 I found a beautiful crash/ride. i have always bought cymbals according to sound. If my stick didn't test it out, I didn't buy it.

It was a 16" crash/ride (Zildjian.) 90% percent of the time it was a crash. But, on some ballads where my ride was overpowering, I used it. It had a lighter tone, (Think REO, Air Supply type stuff,) and I loved it..
Bright yet warm. Wonderful cymbal. I wish I still had it.

I also had an 18" crash/ride, (also Zildjian,) but, I just used that mainly as a ride. I did use it as a power crash when needed.. It had a great sound too.

And, I have a good ear. I know the difference between a good cymbal and a great one.. These both were pro quality cymbals, as I was a fanatic about my cymbals. I didn't use anything but the best!
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Not many crash/rides have kept my attention, but when you do find a good one, they are wonderful cymbals. I have a Sabian 20" AAXplosion crash (It's not designated as a crash ride) but it does both beautifully, a true double duty cymbal. I have a 21" Sabian HHRBDR for my pingy ride, and for the washy ride I use the AAXplosion. It's crash is blissful, I mean it really blossoms beautifully, and riding on it conjures up old school washy ride sounds, where the music is supported from the inside out. I've been on the prowl for a good crash ride for years now and i found it in a crash
+1 on the Giant Beats too, they crash ride in fine style
 
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