Crash-Ride term misused/underrated?

veecharlie

Senior Member
Hey guys!

Long time ago, when I was just a teenager, I had several friends and read toward internet discussions that crash-rides are for beginners or have the stereotype "bad quality".

Over the past years, I realized that really depends which product and in what case, we all crash our rides at least once, and we all ride our crashes at least once. Depending the music you are playing and what cymbal you have/want, etc. we might want a ride that crashes easily and have a huge sound, etc. There are definitely bad quality ones and especially the beginner set, I can't say you really want to stay with that cymbal packs over your career as a drummer.

I'd like to know what you guys think about this "label".
 

J-Moe

Member
I think the beginner stereotype of crash/rides is based more on practicality than anything else. When a drummer is starting out, he/she doesn't know what they need or want...so a cymbal that can do more than one thing might be a good option. Considering that they are buying drums, a seat, stands, other cymbals, etc., wherever a beginning can reduce cost is probably a good thing until they figure out what they need or want down the road. This happened to me, and I've seen it discussed here in just the last few days.

As for the quality of crash/rides, like anything else, the beginner or lower-end stuff will be lower. My first cymbal was a Paiste 400 crash/ride that I wouldn't use as a serving platter. But the ones I've been looking at lately from Sabian and Meinl are awesome.

So I think the stereotype is valid...but to a degree.
 

One Up One Down

Senior Member
[...] When a drummer is starting out, he/she doesn't know what they need or want...so a cymbal that can do more than one thing might be a good option. Considering that they are buying drums, a seat, stands, other cymbals, etc., wherever a beginning can reduce cost is probably a good thing until they figure out what they need or want down the road.[...]
This describes exactly why I have a crash ride! I didn't realize it was a newbie pattern, though I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I have a 21" Sabian Bash Ride -- got it used. As it stands now after about a year, I think I'd like a bit of a dryer sound for a ride, but I do like the sound it makes when I crash it. Overall I'm happy with it.
 
I didn't realize it was a newbie pattern..
It's also a pattern for those who are paring down the kit for playing out. My back doesn't want to carry anything that's just a one trick pony. I need my ride to open up and crash too, but that's not everybody's style. I also bought lightweight hardware...

I agree that "Crash/Ride" as a term has an image problem. It's all mixed up with marketing to new drummers and a lot of lemons with the C/R label inked on them over the years. There are plenty of "high end" rides that are sought out for their ability to crash.
 

MJD

Silver Member
Hey guys!

Long time ago, when I was just a teenager, I had several friends and read toward internet discussions that crash-rides are for beginners or have the stereotype "bad quality".

Over the past years, I realized that really depends which product and in what case, we all crash our rides at least once, and we all ride our crashes at least once. Depending the music you are playing and what cymbal you have/want, etc. we might want a ride that crashes easily and have a huge sound, etc. There are definitely bad quality ones and especially the beginner set, I can't say you really want to stay with that cymbal packs over your career as a drummer.

I'd like to know what you guys think about this "label".
Crash Rides are great. In budget ranges I've found them to be the best sounding out of various lines (the old ZXT line comes to mind with the 18 crash ride sounding better than both the 20 ride and the 18 crash) something to do with how they are shaped as the profile is different than cymbals labeled Ride or Crash(nowadays that is. In the old days there wasn't such a parameter) When you get up into the pro lines there are no qualms about quality. Now depending on the cymbal they do tend to be either a better crash or a better ride but that's one of the reasons that we audition cymbals before we buy them (if possible) or order from places with good return policies. Personally I've only tried one crash ride that i didn't like and that was an old Paiste 302 but that is a brass cymbal and theres a reason pro cymbals are made from Bronze.
 

Winston_Wolf

Platinum Member
I think Crash/Ride has the same stigma as B8 alloy...The large number of beginner cymbals out there tend to color the perception of those kinds of cymbals even though there are plenty of pro-level options out there.

I think the large number of crash rides aimed at beginners were a response to drum set makers that only included one cymbal stand with their beginner kits. In response to that cost-cutting move cymbal makers simply followed suit, offering packs with just a hi hat and a "crash ride" for that single stand.
 

J-Moe

Member
Great call on Mel Taylor. And you don't have to look far to see current heavyweights like Jojo Mayer and Mark Guiliana (Sabian Omni), Benny Greb (Meinl Byzance Vintage Sand Crash Ride), Stanton Moore (Sabian Crescent), and others using crash rides. And it seems that so many other drummers nowadays are using their rides to crash on and their crashes to ride on (as the OP mentioned).
 

opentune

Platinum Member
When 'ride' cymbals started, in a jazz world, there was no distinction. Drummers crashed or rode on either of those 2 cymbals to the left or right. Even fast forward to Ringo and 'rock' drumming, he had two 20 inch cymbals and crashed and rode on both.
 

Roadydad

Senior Member
Zildjian came out with the Keropes around 3 years ago which have no crash / ride distinction, like in the 50's - 60's. You play them as you need.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Zildjian came out with the Keropes around 3 years ago which have no crash / ride distinction, like in the 50's - 60's. You play them as you need.
Same with Sabians repurposed cymbals. They are just cymbals with no name attached.
 

Midnite Zephyr

Platinum Member
There are a few really good ones out there: the Zildjian Keropes, & Sabian Vanguards like GD mentioned, the Paiste Giant Beat Multi-Functional cymbals, Zildjian's El Sonido Multi Crash/Ride works good, there are Sabian Omni AAX & HHX versions that kick a$$, and a few others despite all the bad press that crash/rides get. I heard early on in my drumming journey that a crash/ride does neither one well, neither crash, nor ride. But through my own experience and experimentation, I find that it's simply not true most of the time.

I like to think of cymbals more like Paiste describes them...multi-functional. Whether it's a crash or a ride, if you use it with multiple functions, then it is a crash/ride or whatever you want to call it. I have two cymbals, a 19" AAxtreme crash & a 19" Diril crash that are great crashes that also function well as an auxiliary ride too, not to mention a couple rides that are very crashable. Heck, the only cymbals I have that I don't really use as a crash/ride is my 16" AAX Dark crash & my 16" A Custom crash. Those are straight-up crashes, & I never crash my 20" Sabian Pro ride either.

Here's a 21" AA dry ride, 2nd a 20" AMIR, & 3rd a quick 10" AAX Ozone Splash & 4th a 17" El Sonido. I just did this to check the sound of my drum kit on my iPhone. https://youtu.be/TaRBiUyv0dg
 
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BertTheDrummer

Gold Member
I think Crash/Ride has the same stigma as B8 alloy...The large number of beginner cymbals out there tend to color the perception of those kinds of cymbals even though there are plenty of pro-level options out there.

I think the large number of crash rides aimed at beginners were a response to drum set makers that only included one cymbal stand with their beginner kits. In response to that cost-cutting move cymbal makers simply followed suit, offering packs with just a hi hat and a "crash ride" for that single stand.
I think you hit the nail on the head. A lot of the stigma comes out of the beginner level of things and it is perpetuated a lot of times from the same misinformation that was out there when I started playing like 20 years ago.
 

taiko

Senior Member
Crash/ride is just a name. As a jazz player, almost all of my cymbals are rides and many of these are crashable. Are they crash/rides? I have a few cymbals that are called crash cymbals, but they also ride well. A lot of this is just marketing stuff.

When Zildjian came out with the Kerope line, they didn't name the cymbals as either crashes or rides. They just advertised the sizes.
 

Wave Deckel

Gold Member
There do exist several high quality and expensive crashrides. I own one from Turkish, a 19" jazz crashride and it is absolutely fabulous.

Are hihats, rides and crashes also necessarily "bad quality-beginner-stuff"? There are more horrible hihats and crashes and rides on the market than horrible crashrides.
 
G

Ghostnote

Guest
I always have 2 or 3 crash rides (or light rides) in my set up. I don't have any crashes under 20", and pretty much every one of them can be used as a ride. I do have 2 heavier rides that don't crash very well, but all the other rides I own crash quite well. When I use one of my heavier rides, I always have a light ride or multi in my setup to balance things out. With my Twenty line-up, I only have one crash, a 20" Full Crash. The rest of my "crashes" are a 20" Light Ride, a 22" Light Ride, and a 20" Dark Ride.
 

makinao

Silver Member
I think Crash-Ride has two meanings.

1) A cymbal that can function as both a crash and a ride.

2) A cymbal that is used in "crash-riding", in which a rhythmic ride pattern is played while crashing the edge.

My first good cymbal was an A 20" crash ride. The only thing it does particularly well is mallet swells. But it does that so sublimely that I can't let it go.
 

sticksnstonesrus

Silver Member
I've always aimed for the actual sound the cymbal produces over the name it's labeled with. For a long time, I used a glass-y 20" Sabian Vault crash as a crash-ride/main ride....(at the time) chosen over a 21" RBDR.

Sticks (and the application of power) make a huge difference too in how the same cymbals play. Depending on what kind of song/music styles are on the order, I'll use 7# or 5#, both nylon and wood tips which ultimately make the drums speak different and the cymbals wash/ping different. All of it takes a little time to experiment with. Another reason to always 'try' to sound test cymbals before purchasing too...

But just because the stamp says 'crash/ride' doesn't mean that it isn't better at one subjectively chosen dynamic over the other or that the cymbal isn't of higher worth (to you).
 

Traditional Grip

Senior Member
As Mel Lewis said "All my cymbals are crashes, and all my cymbals are rides."

I could not agree more. I own 2 Sabian SR2 20" 'Thins.' There is no other label on them. They are simply thin cymbals. One is 1849 grams and the other is 1829. I crash and ride both of them.
 

caddywumpus

Platinum Member
As Mel Lewis said "All my cymbals are crashes, and all my cymbals are rides."
Yep. I have owned a few "crash/ride" cymbals, and most of them were duds--just really thick crashes. I have played on many crash cymbals as rides, and crashed many rides that sound better than any of the crash/ride specimens I've played.

Each individual cymbal is a unique instrument with differing potential to work out for you and your musical demands, or not, regardless of the inked designation.
 
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