BillBachman
Gold Member
True that! His snare is so angled that he hits it with his wrist still turned pretty high up. Another recipe for injury.
Conventional wisdom versus the actual snare height and seating position of top drummers
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True that! His snare is so angled that he hits it with his wrist still turned pretty high up. Another recipe for injury.
F
funkutron
Guest
Stoop shouldered is not good. Serious back issues can arise.
Thank you!!! I was looking for this information and this was exactly what I needed.I was searching the forum about snare height and seating position (knees in relation to hips) because I felt that maybe I've sat too high all along. The conventional wisdom on the forum is the snare should be around the navel or so and the knees should be parallel with the hips.
So I decided to look on YouTube to see how some of the top (or at least well-known) drummers play. Here are screenshots from some of the videos. If you search the drummers' names, these videos will be appear in the first page of results:
Tony Royster: knees below the hips. Snare well below the navel.
Questlow: knees below the hips. Snare well below the navel.
Benny Greb: knees parallel with hips. Snare well below the navel.
Neil Peart: knees parallel with hips. Snare up high.
Steve Jordan: tough to find vids of him from the side but from what I've seen, his knees are below the hips and the snare is below the navel.
Jo Jo Mayer: knees below the hips. Snare higher but does seem to be below the navel.
Mike Johnston: knees parallel with hips. Snare below the navel.
Dave Weckl: knees parallel with hips mostly in vids I've seen but can be lower. Snare below the navel.
Steve Gadd: knees are mostly parallel in vids I've seen of him. Snare is probably higher than his navel and tilted.
Luke Holland (representing the younger YouTube celebrity drum crowd; plus I personally think he is a terrific drummer): knees parallel. Snare well below the navel.
Seems to me that most drummers play with the snare at about crotch level rather than navel level. The knee/hip thing varies but it's probably a good thing back-pain-wise to keep them parallel if you can.
Odd-Arne Oseberg
Platinum Member
It's a basic starting point, but the idea is simply that it's natural and your legs don't get in the way.
We're all made differently.
We're all made differently.
Yamaha Rider
Platinum Member
I've also read/seen the 'navel height' thing and it worried me too. Can't recall where sadly.
Yeah. I cant imagine sitting in on a short person's kit.
I put my ReelFeel pad on my knees while using it. My snare sits in the same relative height.
dboomer
Senior Member
Can you expand on this?
Photos I can find show his snare angled up at about 20°. That looks like the natural position you would hold sticks (if using French grip) using so I’m thinking every time you hit the drum you are not hitting with an extended wrist.
Jeremy Bender
Platinum Member
Look at the stark contrast in how Steve Smith has changed his posture, seat and drum height as both age and technique have advanced...
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toddbishop
Platinum Member
If the stick is striking the head at a flat angle, as I mentioned in my earlier comment, you're naturally in position to play rim shots-- you just drop your wrist half an inch.
LittleLegs
Senior Member
This reminds me of how when I started out I sat as high as the seat would go simply because I wanted to look like Stewart Copeland behind the kit and set the toms flat like he did. I didn’t realise he’s a lot taller than me - jeez, it was really hard work! Ringo sat high too which looked very cool to me (and used a 20” bass drum because he felt he was too short). I’ve come down a bit but I still think I might sit too high, but some habits are hard to break (I’m feeling like a 60 year old punk still trying to grease his three strands of hair into a lame mohawk : )
thebarak
Senior Member
There some good videos regarding:
(a) throne height, leading to
(b) hats and kick pedal placement, and then
(c) snare height and tilt, then onto the
(d) ride cymbal position, and lastly
(e) the rest of the kit.
Drummers and doctors together explain why getting this right avoids pain later on.
(a) throne height, leading to
(b) hats and kick pedal placement, and then
(c) snare height and tilt, then onto the
(d) ride cymbal position, and lastly
(e) the rest of the kit.
Drummers and doctors together explain why getting this right avoids pain later on.
MntnMan62
Silver Member
I agree with @Jeremy Bender . Another one to look at the drastic change in position over the years is Vinnie. He started out practically sitting on the floor with his knees angled upward.....drastically. And look at him now.
thebarak
Senior Member
That is so low. I don't know how he could have started off down there and still become one of the best. Amazing picture.I agree with @Jeremy Bender . Another one to look at the drastic change in position over the years is Vinnie. He started out practically sitting on the floor with his knees angled upward.....drastically. And look at him now.
MntnMan62
Silver Member
He was already one of the best back then. He did some of his most insane drumming back then with Frank. The three Joe's Garage albums have some insane playing on them. What I just noticed was how small that bass drum is. I never noticed that before.......until now.
KOJAK76
New Member
Interesting and informative. You put up all those pictures of great drummers and they are clearly all doing something different with how they set up the drums, how they sit ETC... You got Neil in there and others are doing something else. I love this. It shows us all a pathway to creativity and there is no right or wrong way. Thanks for the post it made me think and great pictures!!!
SomeBadDrummer
Platinum Member
After breezing through all of this thread about elbows and knees, thought I'd throw in...
Last night (before seeing this thread today), I literally pulled the snare stand out of the base trying to gain maximum height (and it's 14x6, not a piccolo). The back of the snare bottom rim is actually above the bass drum. My throne is also maxed out. I'm 5'10" so not really long limbs but seated lower I feel like everything is too far out of reach. I can do rimshots although I play much lighter today than I did 30 years ago even when playing hard rock, having learned over time that I can do a LOT more with finesse and hands than simply smashing around the kit.
Now I let the drums/heads do most of the work projecting the sound produced by the tips, and focus more on creative fills. ghost notes and execution vs pounding the hell out of them.
Not sure if my navel sits higher than most
, but can't see how dropping the snare down does anything except make it further to reach the mounted toms. I like everything to flow nicely and prefer to have them as close as possible without touching each other.
Last night (before seeing this thread today), I literally pulled the snare stand out of the base trying to gain maximum height (and it's 14x6, not a piccolo). The back of the snare bottom rim is actually above the bass drum. My throne is also maxed out. I'm 5'10" so not really long limbs but seated lower I feel like everything is too far out of reach. I can do rimshots although I play much lighter today than I did 30 years ago even when playing hard rock, having learned over time that I can do a LOT more with finesse and hands than simply smashing around the kit.
Now I let the drums/heads do most of the work projecting the sound produced by the tips, and focus more on creative fills. ghost notes and execution vs pounding the hell out of them.
Not sure if my navel sits higher than most
, but can't see how dropping the snare down does anything except make it further to reach the mounted toms. I like everything to flow nicely and prefer to have them as close as possible without touching each other.Attachments
GetAgrippa
Diamond Member
Dang I've been struggling with adjusting my seat and snare height-how timely. I noted Tony Williams has his snare high as others and always thought it was suppose to be that way. I've had mine low-and my rim shots were just by dropping my arm to my thigh in a spot-fit like a pocket. I've been dealing with raising my snare height and then angle of my snare. I should just gone with what is comfortable. I've trying to play with more power too-so lower would give me more power stroke room for sure. I'm getting use to it higher now though. My Sonor Safari floor tom at full extension is lower than my snare height which I like even. I've always sat up high with legs extended but now much lower and more angle. Probably changing everything was wrong way to go about it.
someguy01
Platinum Member
I have always set my kit up the same way: throne set to where my feet are flat on the floor and my thighs are parallel to the floor. Everything else finds it's place from there.
Now this is just me, I'm 6'2" and have orangutan arms. (my reach is the same as my friend who's 6'8")
Now this is just me, I'm 6'2" and have orangutan arms. (my reach is the same as my friend who's 6'8")
River19
Senior Member
It's an interesting topic. For ~30 years I played a 3 up 1 down configuration and have been roughly the same size (5'11) since I was 14 (45yo now).
5 years ago in between gigs I had to move my kit around in the basement to install a new floor. I decided to "try" 1 up and 1 down just to see what the hype was about. I had always hated my ride technique and felt fatigue after a couple really high tempo Blues or Swing tunes and deplored long improvised solos that prolonged the pain.
I decided to start all over with setup...... kick, snare, hi hat and ride........I put those in the most comfortable position that I could play relaxed and easy with no arm fatigue from reaching the ride or hats etc. I then slowly installed the remainder of my current 1up 1 down plus side snare kit.
My philosophy and approach (not that I'm noteworthy per se) when it comes to gear choices and positioning is that for most of us, 90% of the "notes" we play are Kick, Snare, hats and ride.......those comprise your "sound" and are the heart and soul of your setup. Ensuring those main elements are in the most ergonomic and comfortable position for you to play without any muscle or tendon fatigue issues is the "right" setup for you.
As a side note I think those are the places to really invest and ensure you have the best instruments from a gear perspective. People discuss endlessly the choices of toms and woods and kits......they are fun but, your kick, snare, hats and ride are your "sound".....invest there......focus there.....
5 years ago in between gigs I had to move my kit around in the basement to install a new floor. I decided to "try" 1 up and 1 down just to see what the hype was about. I had always hated my ride technique and felt fatigue after a couple really high tempo Blues or Swing tunes and deplored long improvised solos that prolonged the pain.
I decided to start all over with setup...... kick, snare, hi hat and ride........I put those in the most comfortable position that I could play relaxed and easy with no arm fatigue from reaching the ride or hats etc. I then slowly installed the remainder of my current 1up 1 down plus side snare kit.
My philosophy and approach (not that I'm noteworthy per se) when it comes to gear choices and positioning is that for most of us, 90% of the "notes" we play are Kick, Snare, hats and ride.......those comprise your "sound" and are the heart and soul of your setup. Ensuring those main elements are in the most ergonomic and comfortable position for you to play without any muscle or tendon fatigue issues is the "right" setup for you.
As a side note I think those are the places to really invest and ensure you have the best instruments from a gear perspective. People discuss endlessly the choices of toms and woods and kits......they are fun but, your kick, snare, hats and ride are your "sound".....invest there......focus there.....