Collarless Snare Head with Deep Snare Beds

I have a snare drum with rather deep snare beds that I can't seem to get a sharp, focused, and crisp response from. It's a thick-shelled maple drum with 45 degree bearing edges. I'm now using a Remo CS on top which is fatter sounding than the Ambassador it had originally. But would a collarless snare side help with deeper snare beds? Your opinions are valued, and appreciated.
 

Stroman

Platinum Member
I like the collarless snare side heads on all my snares, honestly. The snare I own which has the deepest beds is a Yamaha Musashi. It has a thick oak shell and deep, fairly narrow beds. The collarless heads give me plenty of leeway to tighten the head down into those beds. I know there are tons of theories and opinions on snare tuning, but this drum does exactly what I want when I get all the wrinkles out of that snare-side head. I get an articulate sound without excess buzz, which is what I love. Also, I can achieve this sound without tightening the snares too much, which improves low-volume response.

I say, give them a try! They work well for me.
 

C.M. Jones

Diamond Member
I've always found it easier to get a snappy sound with deeper snare beds. Usually, the wires don't need to be as tight for crispness to reign. But regardless of my observations, every drum is different, as is the exact configuration of its beds. It's hard to make snare-bed generalizations.

Going collarless might work just fine. You could also try switching from an Ambassador Snare Side to a Diplomat Snare Side. The latter is undoubtedly crisper and drier, with less sympathetic buzz when tuned appropriately. Some might report that the Diplomat Snare Side is thin-sounding, but I haven't noted that trait at all. The snares I've used it on have still had plenty of body. I've grown to like it a lot more than the Ambassador Snare Side.
 
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ToneT

Well-known Member
What camp are you in?
1. Tune the snare side head and let the wrinkles remain.
2. Tune out the wrinkles and keep the bottom head very tight.

Personally, I don't like the wrinkles. Due to the beds the head may take a little time until it adheres to the dips.
Personal taste here: Very tight bottom head tuned to G (392.0 TuneBot)
 
I've always found it easier to get a snappy sound with deeper snare beds. Usually, the wires don't need to be as tight for crispness to reign. But regardless of my observations, every drum is different, as is the exact configuration of its beds. It's hard to make snare-bed generalizations.

Going collarless might work just fine. You could also try switching from an Ambassador Snare Side to a Diplomat Snare Side. The latter is undoubtedly crisper and drier, with less sympathetic buzz when tuned appropriately. Some might report that the Diplomat Snare Side is thin-sounding, but I haven't noted that trait at all. The snares I've used it on have still had plenty of body. I've grown to like it a lot more than the Ambassador Snare Side.
I have a Diplomat I could try...interesting approach.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
The top CS head is at 87 on the Drum Dial, and the bottom is at 82-83. So there's a little more room left on the bottom head for more tension. Medium to medium-high I would say.
Just for fun, make the reso head high tension and see what it does. On a snare, the reso can be a game changer.
 
What camp are you in?
1. Tune the snare side head and let the wrinkles remain.
2. Tune out the wrinkles and keep the bottom head very tight.

Personally, I don't like the wrinkles. Due to the beds the head may take a little time until it adheres to the dips.
Personal taste here: Very tight bottom head tuned to G (392.0 TuneBot)
No wrinkles allowed here. LOL. Perhaps I can use a hair dryer to mold the head to the snare beds. 82-83 on the Drum Dial.
 
I like the collarless snare side heads on all my snares, honestly. The snare I own which has the deepest beds is a Yamaha Musashi. It has a thick oak shell and deep, fairly narrow beds. The collarless heads give me plenty of leeway to tighten the head down into those beds. I know there are tons of theories and opinions on snare tuning, but this drum does exactly what I want when I get all the wrinkles out of that snare-side head. I get an articulate sound without excess buzz, which is what I love. Also, I can achieve this sound without tightening the snares too much, which improves low-volume response.

I say, give them a try! They work well for me.
Your's is a very similar situation with the Yamaha snare. Perhaps I can order a no collar snare side from GC, or, Sweetwater. In the meantime I have a Diplomat in my stock I can try.
 

C.M. Jones

Diamond Member
Your's is a very similar situation with the Yamaha snare. Perhaps I can order a no collar snare side from GC, or, Sweetwater. In the meantime I have a Diplomat in my stock I can try.
One thing to consider: The Diplomat Snare Side is about thirty percent thinner than its Ambassador counterpart and can choke and/or stretch if cranked in the same fashion. If you're using a tension of 82/83 on an Ambassador Snare Side, I would think that an equivalent tension for the Diplomat Snare Side would be somewhere in the upper 70s. To get nice and tight, the Diplomat doesn't need as many turns, which, again, makes it easier to remove wrinkles from deeper beds.
 

Stroman

Platinum Member
One thing to consider: The Diplomat Snare Side is about thirty percent thinner than its Ambassador counterpart and can choke and/or stretch if cranked in the same fashion. If you're using a tension of 82/83 on an Ambassador Snare Side, I would think that an equivalent tension for the Diplomat Snare Side would be somewhere in the upper 70s. To get nice and tight, the Diplomat doesn't need as many turns, which, again, makes it easier to remove wrinkles from deeper beds.
That's a factor many folks forget. The drum dial reading from a thinner head is quite a bit lower than a thicker head, all else being equal. The tympanic pressure is lower for the same pitch.
 
One thing to consider: The Diplomat Snare Side is about thirty percent thinner than its Ambassador counterpart and can choke and/or stretch if cranked in the same fashion. If you're using a tension of 82/83 on an Ambassador Snare Side, I would think that an equivalent tension for the Diplomat Snare Side would be somewhere in the upper 70s. To get nice and tight, the Diplomat doesn't need as many turns, which, again, makes it easier to remove wrinkles from deeper beds.
This is something I simply didn't consider. Perhaps I should start with the Diplomat I have sitting in the box already. LOL. Great advice.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry" - Administrator
Staff member
82/83 ona DD in my world is way low for a snare reso. I wouldn't even use the DD on a 3 mil head. It's only accurate up to a certain point. I know what pitch I like my snare reso, so I do that by pitch/ear. It's a high pitch for sure. The 3 mil head will obviously stretch before it breaks. I definitely get into head stretching tensions on the snare reso. That's what makes it snappy to me. That's why I like the collarless heads. I just got 6 more yesterday. I get twice to 3x the life of a collard head. To me a snare doesn't sound right unless the bottom head is stretched really tight. There is an upper limit where it loses it's mojo. I like tensioning almost to that point
 
82/83 ona DD in my world is way low for a snare reso. I wouldn't even use the DD on a 3 mil head. It's only accurate up to a certain point. I know what pitch I like my snare reso, so I do that by pitch/ear. It's a high pitch for sure. The 3 mil head will obviously stretch before it breaks. I definitely get into head stretching tensions on the snare reso. That's what makes it snappy to me. That's why I like the collarless heads. I just got 6 more yesterday. I get twice to 3x the life of a collard head. To me a snare doesn't sound right unless the bottom head is stretched really tight. There is an upper limit where it loses it's mojo. I like tensioning almost to that point
This leaves me with yet another option before I try either of the other ones. Are no collar heads a special order item? Thanks Larry, and again congratulations on your "newest gig."
 

pgm554

Platinum Member
I've used them on snares with little or non existent snare beds such as a Dyna and marching snares.
That's what they are made for.
Don't think it's going to do what you want.
 
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