China/Trash Cymbals - what for ?

philby

Member
I am always on the lookout for cymbals to add to my lineup. When I hear the sound of the China models, I wonder why they would be incorporated into a kit setup. Yet companies like Zildjian make a few different sizes and models. Anybody use them?
 

iCe

Senior Member
I have several china's. I use a Zildjian 16" Oriental China Trash on my left side. Main reason i chose that one is that is very trashy and gets out of the way quickly. My right side china is a Paiste 20" 2002 Novo China. Chose that one because it's quick as well, but also has a nice fuller sound compared to the Zildjian.

Also have the 10" Oriental China Trash (not using at the moment) and it is even quicker sounding.

I use chinas if i want to make a 'big statement' like cracking lightning. It's aggressive sounding and perfect for that. Sometimes i just need a bit more spice than a regular crash can deliver and a splash is too quiet ( i also use mini chinas in 2 stacks, but that's a totally different sound)
 
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harryconway

Platinum Member
It's aggressive sounding and perfect for that.
That's what I used mine for. I had a Paiste 602. Had an almost gong like quality. Currently have a Zildjian Amir II. Really trashy, in-your-face, rude quality.
 

philby

Member
I have several china's. I use a Zildjian 16" Oriental China Trash on my left side. Main reason i chose that one is that is very quick and gets out of the way quickly. My right side china is a Paiste 20" 2002 Novo China. Chose that one because it's quick as well, but also has a nice fuller sound compared to the Zildjian.

Also have the 10" Oriental China Trash (not using at the moment) and it is even quicker sounding.

I use chinas if i want to make a 'big statement' like cracking lightning. It's aggressive sounding and perfect for that. Sometimes i just need a bit more spice than a regular crash can deliver and a splash is too quiet ( i also use mini chinas in 2 stacks, but that's a totally different sound)
Thanks. What style of music do you play?
 
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iCe

Senior Member
Thanks. What style of music do you play?
Mostly instrumental progressive rock/metal, but when i played in cover bands or rock bands i always used a china. If you like the sound, that is what matters and not the type of music you play :)
Just a great cymbal in combination with the snare to make an extra powerful statement.
 

davor

Senior Member
I recently got a Paiste PST7 China 14" (technically a "mini" china I think) - I love the sound of it!

However, its not loud enough when jamming with my band, so I'm now on the look out for a larger china.

I should have thought about this before buying the 14" , but I wasn't sure if I'd like it and it was quite cheap.
 

ToneT

Well-known member
Had to have one after hearing Cobham using it on funky off-beat eighth notes, double-bass shuffles, and sixteenth-note accents with the snare over double-bass sixteenths.

Heard plenty of jazz on the radio (WRVR-FM 106.7) with Swish cymbals being swung during trumpet solos.

My first one was an A Zildjian 18" Swish with 8 rivets. I still have it.
My second one was an A Zildjian 20" Medium Swish. Sort of a neat cross between a Swish and a Pang. It's my favorite.
My third one is a 22" China Boy Low with 12 rivets. Very nasty and explosive!
 
After hearing Phil Collins use one on the bridge of Abacab, I desperately wanted one. Then I heard Bill Bruford use on on "Another Red Nightmare" and I had to have one. Although, perhaps ironically, it turns out that's not actually a china cymbal Bruford's playing there, just a terribly mistreated (or extremely well-loved?) piece of junk cymbal he found in the studio's trash bin.

But I've recently admitted to myself that cool as I think they are—they look great, and when used and utilized properly, they sound amazing—my style just doesn't really call for one often, if at all. (And yet I've got three of them.)
 

bongoman

Junior Member
I’ve been fooling around with chinas and trash crashes for years, I’ve bought maybe two dozen. What I’ve found is that they sound killer in a full band mix, and especially in a recording where the level and tone can be adjusted in post. But they don’t necessarily sound great in the drivers seat, at home, with no band. So I literally never want that sound when I’m practicing on my own, but I very often want that sound when the mix is right.
 

jdavis

Member
Used to have a 16" Wuhan I bought years ago for peanuts. Beat the hell out of it for several years and it sounded great. Wish I still had it...

Might be a good call if you're short on cash and want something that actually sounds decent.
 

organworthyplayer337

Well-known member
I love Trash crashes. They have a different (read: better, IMO) feel and they have an open, “airy” sound.

To me, they sound like pre-mixed cymbals on a record. They respond quickly and open up fast, so rolls/swells sound great. The quick response also allows for super dynamic riding/playing.
 

Iristone

Well-known member
I heard old-time jazzers used to use Chinese cymbals before they gradually switched to the Armenian variety. In addition to quick accents I like them for light riding too, they are very responsive with a slightly hard-sounding shimmer. They also give a nice texture with crescendo (Keith Moon used it to great effect on Quadrophenia and Guitar and Pen)
 

drummingbulldog

Well-known member
I like the 14" K mini china a lot. I also have Wuhan 14". I have a Stagg 20" that I don't use that's for sale. When I use one I like the sound to be in & out. Fast. I got the 20" because I wanted experiment with riding on one like Billy Cobham/Mel Lewis do. It's just not the right china for that style. The china cymbal got a bad rap from the 80s metal players. I play mine with the flange turned up. I don't mount them inverted or upside down. They respond better with a light stroke. I never bash them or play on the rounded edge anymore. For every Wuhan I've owned I had to pick through many before I found one I deemed musical sounding. For the price you have to be picky. My little K mini china is the best I've ever owned & played. I have several friends who have asked to buy it so that kinda says a lot. I lucked out taking a chance through online. Chinas aren't for everyone. Same with splashes/cowbells/etc.
 

davor

Senior Member
I like the 14" K mini china a lot. I also have Wuhan 14". I have a Stagg 20" that I don't use that's for sale. When I use one I like the sound to be in & out. Fast. I got the 20" because I wanted experiment with riding on one like Billy Cobham/Mel Lewis do. It's just not the right china for that style. The china cymbal got a bad rap from the 80s metal players. I play mine with the flange turned up. I don't mount them inverted or upside down. They respond better with a light stroke. I never bash them or play on the rounded edge anymore. For every Wuhan I've owned I had to pick through many before I found one I deemed musical sounding. For the price you have to be picky. My little K mini china is the best I've ever owned & played. I have several friends who have asked to buy it so that kinda says a lot. I lucked out taking a chance through online. Chinas aren't for everyone. Same with splashes/cowbells/etc.
Bulldog , what place do your China's take in your set up? I'm asking as my 1st China is a 14 and I'm wondering if it's loud enough (but I haven't actually recorded it with the band, it's only my perception from behind the kit!)

If anyone else has a view on China sizes and how/where people use them, feel free to chime in :)
 

calan

Silver Member
I think right now I own a 20” HHX Zen, and a 14” HHX evolution mini (both Sabian). I’ve had others throughout the years, but I don’t see these leaving the stable.

Chinas often have a home on the kit of any drummer that plays any kind of aggressive music. I don’t particularly like mine in a more subdued/mainstream context (although I think the Zen would sound killer as a “left hand ride” in a Jazz context, which isn’t happening for me). I do however like my 16” HHX O-Zone for that kind of thing, it’s still trashy and quick without being such a jarring contrast.

I like to play around with the 14. I’ve used it as a bottom hi hat, and stack different slashes in the inverted cup part.

That reminds me, I also have a 10” AA mini holy china. That’s also fun to use in a stack. I mostly got that one for when I was still doing more technical metal and wanted a really quick cymbal sound for use in busy fills.


my 1st China is a 14 and I'm wondering if it's loud enough
Never had a problem with mine, but I guess your mileage may vary.
 

makinao

Silver Member
I have a 10", 16", 18", 20", and 22". I use them for all kinds of music, for all kinds of functions from ride to crash. I also have hats made up of a 16" China bottom and a 16" thin crash top. Funky.
 

Iristone

Well-known member
I heard old-time jazzers used to use Chinese cymbals before they gradually switched to the Armenian variety. In addition to quick accents I like them for light riding too, they are very responsive with a slightly hard-sounding shimmer. They also give a nice texture with crescendo (Keith Moon used it to great effect on Quadrophenia and Guitar and Pen)
Oh, I have an 18" Chang and an 18" Avedis Zildjian swish. To me they have a similar shimmer when ridden lightly. I haven't tried the Avedis live yet, but my Chang is very sensitive volume wise - a moderately light "glance" results in a relatively loud sound.
 
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