Cheap or Expensive cymbals for Metal?

Drumsrules

New member
Im looking at buying cymbals to upgrade/add to my Sabian SBR set that comes with the drum kits.

Ive got my eye of the Sabian Holy China 19" but the other cymbals, I'm not sure wether to go for the B8 range or the AAX range for metal.

I only want to play Sabian

Thanks
Sean
 

Peedy

Senior Member
Hmmm, OK, I've got two hands and here they are.

On the one hand - a lot will and should depend on what you think and like. If you're convinced that B8s sound best with your music, do it. Nothing wrong with that at all. You'll save a few bucks for now and you can always add more stuff later.

And on the other hand - the vast majority of metal (and virtually every other music genre) players primarily use B20 cymbals of whatever maker they choose or are sponsored by.

My B8s came free with the 25yo kit I got on eBay some years back. They were good sounding cymbals, 1990 Sabian Pro series. But as I started to buy B20 cymbals (I played them side by side for a year or so) the Pro cymbals really started to sound like the odd man out.

I ended up giving the Sabians away to the neighbor kid who had just taken up drumming.

Pete

ps - I don't play metal. But the metal drummers I know had the almost identical experience.
 

Woolwich

Silver Member
This is digressing from the topic because I don’t know anything about the Sabian ranges but I have to disagree with Peedy’s remark about Metal players using primarily B20 cymbals. Paiste cymbals are nearly all (if not all) a B8 formula and from their lower cost lines right through to 2002, Signature and the ultimate Metal cymbal the Rude they find a home in Rock and Metal setups. Yes the material is important but so is the manufacture process and cymbal design.
 

Drumsrules

New member
Oh ok. Thanks peeps. What I could do is buy the cheap ones since I’ve only really played around with 1 hats, 2 crashes and 1 ride and buy all the splashes etc and upgrade them later?

also I’m a heavy hitter aswell
 
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OSDrums

Well-known member
...Paiste cymbals are nearly all (if not all) a B8 formula and from their lower cost lines right through to 2002, Signature and the ultimate Metal cymbal the Rude they find a home in Rock and Metal setups. Yes the material is important but so is the manufacture process and cymbal design.
Paiste uses B8 with success (e.g. in the 2002 / Giant Beat / Rude family). Signature (and all of its fellows like Signature Dark Energy and Signature Traditionals) use B15 and the 602 and Masters Cymbals are B20 (as were the Twenty line). And - even professional lines like 2002 and Signature are made from sheet bronze. So you are right, it’s all about the making of...
 

mikyok

Platinum Member
From a technique point of view.....and please don't take this as an insult at any point as I don't know your playing level, I'd look at it from how you're hitting a cymbal. I speak from experience as I got through a lot of expensive cymbals before I learnt to hit them properly and I've not broke one in nearly 15 years.

If you're hitting them the right way i.e a glancing blow across the cymbal then get the expensive pies, if you're hitting them right they'll last a lifetime regardless of range/brand etc.

If you're hitting into the cymbal as hard as you can then you're gonna break lots of cymbals cheap and expensive which puts a bit of strain on the old finances in which case stick with the budget stuff until you can get the most out of professional level cymbals.

If Sabian is your sound go for Sabian, it's ultimately your choice!
 

trickg

Silver Member
If you're hitting into the cymbal as hard as you can then you're gonna break lots of cymbals cheap and expensive which puts a bit of strain on the old finances in which case stick with the budget stuff until you can get the most out of professional level cymbals.
I have two ride cymbals sitting in my house that were left by the drummer who was drumming for the band my son toured with the last couple of years - they used my house as rehearsal space.

One is a 22" Zildjian K Dark Ride (or something like that)
The other one is a 23" Zildjian Sweet Ride

Both have big cracks in them that follow the grooves, rendering them pretty much worthless. He's a solid drummer, but I always felt that he hit too hard.
 

mikyok

Platinum Member
One is a 22" Zildjian K Dark Ride (or something like that)
The other one is a 23" Zildjian Sweet Ride

Both have big cracks in them that follow the grooves, rendering them pretty much worthless. He's a solid drummer, but I always felt that he hit too hard.
Straight away that's over £700 worth of really nice B20 wasted.

I'm always amazed when I see rides get cracked, I've only seen one person do it and again he was a decent drummer but had no technique or dynamic other than fffffff
 

harryconway

Platinum Member
Of your two choices .... go AAX. If money's tight ..... square away your hats and ride first ..... and go B8 on crash's and china. Upgrade those later. And it you're willing to go used ..... you'll save a lot of money. You might even find a B8 china will work just fine.

I'm pretty much a Sabian player. I think I have 2 Zildjian and 24 Sabian cymbals in my assortment. If you haven't figured out which AAX series you want ..... there's some pretty good comparison video's out there. I listened to some ..... decided I likes the HHX X-plosion best ..... picked up a few on eBay ..... and I really like them. Since then .... I've picked up a few HHX from other series, and gotten a few AA/AAX.

If by "I'm a heavy hitter", that means you break cymbals ..... you're doing it wrong ( as others have said). And hitting a cymbal wrong doesn't get any more sound out of it ..... it just damages them and burns up your money.
 

trickg

Silver Member
Straight away that's over £700 worth of really nice B20 wasted.

I'm always amazed when I see rides get cracked, I've only seen one person do it and again he was a decent drummer but had no technique or dynamic other than fffffff
Yep - I'm not sure what to do with them because cracked like they are, there's no resale value on them, and other than the cracks, they are practically brand new. Right now they're just sitting there next to my kit.

This is actually relevant to this thread because when talking about cymbals for metal, with many cymbals there's a point of diminishing returns, and hitting harder doesn't really make them any louder, but it will break them much faster. If the drummer truly believes they need more volume beyond that, they should probably get into cymbals that are designed to be louder or more cutting like Paiste Rudes, or AAXPlosions.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Metal drummers opinion, go with the AAX and learn to hit them properly. You aren't driving a nail with a sledge hammer, or trying to kill a fly. It's more like painting with a brush. You don't mash the paint in, you spread it out. Once I learned this, I stopped breaking cymbals. Haven't broken one in almost 20 years.

B20s sound better generally. Don't sell yourself or the music short. Sure metal is a fast cacophony of sound, but it's still music. It deserves better sounding cymbals too.
 

Peedy

Senior Member
This is digressing from the topic because I don’t know anything about the Sabian ranges but I have to disagree with Peedy’s remark about Metal players using primarily B20 cymbals. Paiste cymbals are nearly all (if not all) a B8 formula and from their lower cost lines right through to 2002, Signature and the ultimate Metal cymbal the Rude they find a home in Rock and Metal setups. Yes the material is important but so is the manufacture process and cymbal design.
As a former Paiste owner myself, I'm fully aware of that. However, the OP said "I only want to play Sabian" so that's where I aimed my comments.

Paiste makes some great cymbals, but they're not for everyone.

Pete
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
Then you need a pro cymbal on a shoestring budget....

Look for a Sabian SR2 china.

Make sure you learn how to strike a china.
Make sure your china is sanely set up. While there's no defacto "correct" way to hang a china, there are quite a number of wrong ways to do it, and it may not seem intuitive initially.
 

Peedy

Senior Member
Meh. My main gripe about Paiste shines through in those videos (and is probably what some people love about them). It always seemed to me that Paiste tries to make every stick strike sound the same. Hate that. No room for artistry. You might as well use a drum machine.

To each their own.

Pete
 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
Metal drummer hear, and Sabian fanboy. I have played Sabian for over 20 years and used them for metal, funk, death metal, grindcore, punk, rock, whatever. Brand is personal preference but all the top 4 make great cymbals and budget cymbals.

Gonna be honest here, if you have to ask, you probibly don't NEED pro cymbals. That being said, if you can AFFORD them go for it. They will sound 100x better. I use a mix of AAX and HHX cymbals in my death metal band and they sound killer. I have recorded 7 or more albums with them as well. (A few have been replaced over the years)

I have the holy china. It is awesome. cutting and LOUD. I did have a Zildjian china at one point that was tough to beat but it cracked. That was the only non Sabian cymbal I have used.

B8's are kind of crappy. The new stuff is a lot better than the old stuff, but it's cheaper for a reason. If you ever record that will be a big difference. For live gigs you won't notice as much as when you are playing by yourself as well.

It really comes down to your budget. I'd prefer a lower level or mid tier kit and high end cymbals over a $5000 kit and some cheap ass cymbals but that's just me.

You don't have to get them all at once but there are a few different packs that work well.

Find out the Sound you are going for. The AAXplosion is a good cymbal. I think I have the hhxplosion and hhxtreme. The rawbell dry ride was pretty nice but i recently bought a 222 AAX metal ride. If you want stick definition and a piercing bell this cymbal is great.

Being a heavy hitter makes no difference. If you hit them too hard with bad technique they all break at some point. Being a SOLID hitter, I play loud and fast, but my technique is good, and I don't try and kill them. There is a point that hitting it harder won't make any benefits. Your better off hitting your kick snare and toms hard and hitting the cymbals quieter in most situations.

It comes down to your budget. If you can afford it do it. But I'd use it as motivation to reward myself. If I can improve X by Y in this time frame I can buy a new pie. Do that for a whole set and you will be motivated to practice a ton.
 

theseer2

Junior Member
Metal drummer hear, and Sabian fanboy.

B8's are kind of crappy. The new stuff is a lot better than the old stuff, but it's cheaper for a reason. If you ever record that will be a big difference. For live gigs you won't notice as much as when you are playing by yourself as well.
..
Thats because Sabian has no clue how to make good sounding cymbals out of B8, neither does Zildjian. Its not because B8 is crappy.
 

Row

Junior Member
Go for the Sabian AAX as they will fit your style well and I think they will inspire you. I like the AAX Xcelerator hi hats out of this line. Replace incrementally and repeat until you have your sound. Good luck!
 
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