Carnivore diet.

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harryconway

Platinum Member
“Solar power is a Gigawatt per square km! All you need is a 100 by 100-mile patch in a deserted corner of Arizona, Texas or Utah (or anywhere) to more than power the entire USA.”
~ Elon Musk
Interesting . You know if there’s any truth to his statement or specific articles on this . I’m all for a renewable energy sources/sources that cause less of a detriment to us and the planet as our current options .
Here's info on that.
 

roncadillac

Member
I've been a vegetarian for over fifteen years. I'm not one of 'those' vegetarians and could really care less what other people eat. For me it is a dietary preference. If OP or anyone else here eats pretty much nothing but meat... Cool. Good for you. Every one needs to evaluate their options in relation to their needs, lifestyle, and financial means. More juicy meat for y'all and more yummy avocados for me. Win-win.

Science pertaining to our physiological past isn't really relevant anymore as our bodies change over generations. If the world ended tomorrow and my only choice in food is to go out and hunt an animal I would be the first in line. But it's 2022 and I can go to a grocery store so I don't.
 
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GetAgrippa

Diamond Member
I propose the Coffee diet . it is a well known fact that the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil was an apple tree in the Garden of Eden , but it is a little known fact the tree of life was a coffee tree/shrub. I rest my case.
 

roncadillac

Member
I propose the Coffee diet . it is a well known fact that the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil was an apple tree in the Garden of Eden , but it is a little known fact the tree of life was a coffee tree/shrub. I rest my case.
I've got a batch of cafe bustelo cold brew slowly becoming more awesome by the hour as we speak
 

GetAgrippa

Diamond Member
See these countries consume a lot of coffee-and they are mostly ranked high in health and longevity-why you ask-because they drink the elixir of life.
Ya know a lot these countries get pretty cold maybe that's why the drink so much?? Whatever the reason lucky them-let us drink coffee to our good health-Cheers!

Screen Shot 2022-09-28 at 11.45.59 PM.png
 

Donkey Boy

Active Member
we only lived until we were 20 or 21, in very small nomadic enclaves....



actually, they did as much devastation and alteration to the land as we do, just with out heavy machinery and over longer periods of time. I just finished reading a book called 1491 about this very subject: the Americas before European alteration... I doubt that . yes impact is unavoidable but nothing like post European settlement.



maybe we need to relook at our definition of "being productive"....maybe we DON'T need to be going full tilt, 100% production 24/7? I feel like the use of fossil fuels have created a first world culture who determines "down time" as a bad thing. We would be "losing money" if we shut down or 12 hours.

Solar and wind would force us to be more respectful of our surroundings....and not money.
 
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Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
Even the briefest of online research would demonstrate how ridiculous this assertion is, but at this point I’m not sure if you’re making it all up and trying to get a rise out of the forum.


Hasn't the argument against everything I've said that we don't trust the internett.

A brief search and a more thorough search may lead different paths. That's just a metaphor btw.

Now, I've provided actual doctors, who get good results and you can easily look up the research they refer to, but you provide really only personal attack, probably even without even spending two seconds listening to what these people have to say. You probably don't have to, because you know everything already, right? Therein lies the challenge an why evolution and growth in any field is so slow. There's resistance to look at the evidence in a new way, in a new light that actual reflects real experience. Trying to do actual evidence based medicine.

So again, simple trolling without providing any new information or value to the discussion.

Where exactly did you find there research that says that everything I'm says is wrong? Problems with the Seventh Day Adventist studies and the Harvard study are actually discussed in this material because of the problem with the extreme bias, sometimes intentional, sometimes not.

If you look at the actual data you can really only scratch your head and wonder how they can ignore so many relevant factors. Granted, true studies of these things are very hard to do. It would involve treating a large amount of people like lab rats their whole life. That leads us to what we do have, the actual results from treatment as well as looking at populations that have been doing this their whole lives just like the many generations before them.

Then we have something I haven't mentioned yet which is that if you go somewhere else in the world where they look at these things with a different bias and expect or are open to different results, they do actually end up with something different. The science here is far from settled.

If trying to make fun of me or insulting me is the goal you are failing miserably.

It quite simple really. What do you choose to do in regard to nutrition and why. What research have you done.

That would be much more interesting, at least to me, over the current witch burning you're providing.

What studies are you leaning on and do you know how they were done?

Do you have something meaningful to add?

Personal insults. They're so productive. No wonder we seem to have solved every problem in this world. It's just smooth sailing from here on forward.
 
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Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
See these countries consume a lot of coffee-and they are mostly ranked high in health and longevity-why you ask-because they drink the elixir of life.
Ya know a lot these countries get pretty cold maybe that's why the drink so much?? Whatever the reason lucky them-let us drink coffee to our good health-Cheers!

View attachment 124850


Yes, just like police cars cause traffic accidents this is irrefutable evidence.

Now, I don't drink coffee, so that is obviously what will lead to my untimely demise long before my red meat consumption catches up to me and my evil ways.

I have woken up to the smell of it most mornings of my life, so I cross my fingers I get at least some of the benefits that way.

So do these guys.



Maybe inhaling is the way to go? We need a study.
 

Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
I've been a vegetarian for over fifteen years. I'm not one of 'those' vegetarians and could really care less what other people eat. For me it is a dietary preference. If OP or anyone else here eats pretty much nothing but meat... Cool. Good for you. Every one needs to evaluate their options in relation to their needs, lifestyle, and financial means. More juicy meat for y'all and more yummy avocados for me. Win-win.

Science pertaining to our physiological past isn't really relevant anymore as our bodies change over generations. If the world ended tomorrow and my only choice in food is to go out and hunt an animal I would be the first in line. But it's 2022 and I can go to a grocery store so I don't.

That's an attitude that's easier to respect.

I'd be interested to hear your approach, method to get full nutrition, any supplements etc..
 

roncadillac

Member
That's an attitude that's easier to respect.

I'd be interested to hear your approach, method to get full nutrition, any supplements etc..
I can't guarantee I'm textbook definition of health but I don't feel terrible so that's a start haha. Whenever I see a Dr they tell me I'm doing good so I'll take that as well.

I basically just balance meals, make sure I have legumes and protein filled veggies like mushrooms. I do eat eggs and dairy so that certainly helps. I take a regular one a day men's vitamin and a zinc.

Again, I'm not a dietitian and I'm sure I could improve aspects of what I eat but it works for me.
 
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Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
I can't guarantee I'm textbook definition of health but I don't feel terrible so that's a start haha. Whenever I see a Dr they tell me I'm doing good so I'll take that as well.

I basically just balance meals, make sure I have legumes and protein filled veggies like mushrooms. I do eat eggs and diary so that certainly helps. I take a regular one a day men's vitamin and a zinc.

Again, I'm not a dietitian and I'm sure I could improve aspects of what I eat but it works for me.

It's a while ago, but I was a vegan at some point. I lived in Malmö, Sweden with my then girlfriend and we would try a specific new diet and stick to it for about 6 months or so before trying something different. It was when quorn, Steven Gundry's favorite protein was new there and all the rage. Later I was a different kind of vegan the raw superfood kind, but that quickly went to at least getting my protein from animals and sort of trying to do what looked like the best from both worlds. The hemp protein experiment didn't go too well. The fermented rice protein like the Sunwarrior great wasn't great either. Digested fine enough, but always had a bit of heavy and foggy cognition. Mind you, when I lived in Clearwater, Florida I quite often after going to the gym went to get a huge protein smoothie often along with black beans and rice. No ill effects I could see then, but I was eating everything else to at that time. Got my Juiceman and did all that stuff.

Eggs and dairy do make a difference.

People talk about B12, but things like converting short chain omega 3s to long chain and beta carotene to retinol etc.. are things our body doesn't prefer to do or is very good at. Certain researchers are starting to question if we can do this at all to any meaningful degree.

The thing against carnivore is obviously things like scurvy. I think though there's a bit more to the James Blunt story than we're told. Quality, was this pure of with a lot of other junk. If you don't eat the carbs your body is quite adapt at doing the relevant processes in a another way and if you eat carbs from a while food source obviously the needed C vitamin comes with that food. Saturated fat, but hey, coconuts and we really ned to question that whole thing a lot more. You fed saturated fat to rabbits and suddenly it's illegal to even question for the next 60 years although there's noting really supporting it in any population prior to that. Just accepted as truth and most things since have been seen through that lense. High cholesterol, BAD, clogs arteries, but why does it do that? One should at least spend some time learning what cholesterol actually is before having a strong opinion. Our bodies are slightly more complex. Surely, high refined sugar in liquid form and modern processed food just looking from the outside is the main variable and anyone with interest in health can pretty much agree on that. Regardless of path after that is at least an improvement.

Against the vegan thing it's anti-nutrients which there are strategies to get rid of or reduce, intolerence to grains, that it's not complete and then there's huge disagreement on what fatty acids are actually good for us. I don't really see much evidence supporting that avocados, olives or coconut oil is bad for anyone excluding allergies, but processes soy, sunflower oil, grapeseed, canola and so on doesn't look al that great.

You have this idea about flavanoids and unspecified micro nutrients against carnivores as well, but since grass is one of the few plants that can absorb all minerals why would meat be deficient? Those other things the jury is still out on. Seems to be just try to eat a bit of everything to cover your bases sort of thing. Even more or less pure carnivores in the wild use plants for medicine occasionally, so there's that.

Negative studies of high meat consumption usually don't seem take into account the french fries, soda, ice cream, Oreo cookies and milkshake that often go along with that and a vegan that's interested in taking care of their health probably does all of that stuff and much more a lot better already. Self report studies are difficult to get any real information out of. Not to mention people tend to lie about their shortcomings. One small coke on Saturday, well, after closer scrutiny, a bunch of super-size me fast foo meals most days. Exercise every day. Well, I thought about doing some on Sunday, but just didn't feel like it. The shame. Make it look pretty.

Pure carnivore studies which actually haven't really been doe properly at all are happening now, but it will take a while. Until then, there's just history and experience.

Are we focusing on the positives and ignoring people that it didn't work for? Who knows.
 
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Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
They are coming for us eventually, you know.

 

GetAgrippa

Diamond Member
This is an interesting hypothesis-similar to what I was inferring and how confounding factors make it difficult. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3253466/
Then two meta-analysis articles (highlights what I was saying how these Meta-analysis are all over the place in results).
 

Chris Whitten

Silver Member
Negative studies of high meat consumption usually don't seem take into account the french fries, soda, ice cream, Oreo cookies and milkshake that often go along with that and a vegan that's interested in taking care of their health probably does all of that stuff and much more a lot better already.
You don't think that most studies are controlled?????
About fifteen years ago the Australian Cricket Team was put on a high animal protein diet. Lot's of protein, virtually no carbs, lots of animal fats.
OF COURSE, as elite sports people they weren't allowed to have meat with french fries and milk shakes.
The team was playing well at the time. I know their cholesterol went through the roof, but the team doctor said that was OK. I never followed up on what happened over time, but it clearly hasn't taken off as a diet for most sports.
Tour de France cyclists eat lean protein (chicken and fish) and a lot of rice.
When they've researched the Med diet, over many decades, they obviously haven't just looked at Italian, Greek and Provencal people, ignored the fact they work hard and excercise a lot. OF COURSE they have fed the diet over several months to US and UK volunteers, monitored their health and come up with the conclusion it is one of the healthiest diets for humans.
 
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GetAgrippa

Diamond Member
Another great article in line with what I've been positing about how the human diet transitioned recently with advent of farming-you can't negate over a million years of evolution as hunter-gatherers in early to modern humans as we transitioned to agriculture. The genetic-diet-gut microbiome-immunity/infammation link I think is a key pathway in human disease. I think as more mechanistic studies of what in red meat is good and bad is discovered a clearer picture will emerge as what is key in a plant-based diest that is most beneficial-is it anti-oxidants and anti-inflammatory polyphenols/phytochemicals or lectins. Like it could just be the fact all plants contain lectins are known to be mitogens to human lymphocytes-it could all be immunity/inflammation effect. I think they use lectins treating some cancers or trials testing them? Back in 80s they were treated like human toxin dietarily but have been using in all kinds of histological assays for decades. Anyways lots to dissect to mechanistically understand what is going on in human health. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7826636/
 

Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
This is an interesting hypothesis-similar to what I was inferring and how confounding factors make it difficult. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3253466/
Then two meta-analysis articles (highlights what I was saying how these Meta-analysis are all over the place in results).

Yes, just under the surface and it's complicated.

We don't know that much. and doctor's certainly don't represent the depth of knowledge many people seem to think they do. Here's the human body. Now learn the names of all the bones in Latin. Good. Now we will learn how to follow protocol and never ask questions because if you do you will loose your job.

I went to school, I'm a doctor, I'm a licensed nutritionist! Well, yeah, so what? That's a start. Hopefully, before you die you've helped us slowly moving towards some sort of greater knowledge. Very few great leaps in progress were made by people following the crowd, the narrative. Goes for musicians and other artists as well.

I know because it said so in the news, the newspaper, Women's Health and Men's Health. Well, gee. I guess it must the ultimate truth, then. Until next week.,

One study that the media decides to report represents nothing and certainly not the whole picture of anything. IN any field.

Look at those actually doing the research. There's no consensus and certainly not what the general health guidelines say.

It's a common conversation. "I think we know most thinks now. They're doctors, they have STUDIED nutrition." Oh, really? that's already no very true. Even among doctors opinions are like rock #7.
 

Chris Whitten

Silver Member
One study that the media decides to report represents nothing and certainly not the whole picture of anything. IN any field.

Look at those actually doing the research. There's no consensus and certainly not what the general health guidelines say.

It's a common conversation. "I think we know most thinks now. They're doctors, they have STUDIED nutrition." Oh, really? that's already no very true. Even among doctors opinions are like rock #7.
The studies are numerous, from all different sources. No doctors haven't just 'studied nutrition'. Most of them have been involved in wide ranging research for years..
You SAY it's all corrupted by money, but where is the actual proof.
You are anti-science, which is actually the populist thing on the internet. You aren't a free thinker bucking the system, you are repeating a lot of myth from thousands of Facebook groups and Telegram.
 

GetAgrippa

Diamond Member
Well I don't think there any conspiracy and science is a lot about what we are looking at in studying biological phenomena. Most I know just love the science and process itself-it's like a roller coaster ride. Now there are some motivated by wealth or power, and fraud is a growing problem because so competitive now. You're not going to get rich studying olfaction in lobsters. Human bias is always the nemesis-why double blind randomized studies. Also just because something correlates with a phenomenon it doesn't mean it's really significant-that's really true in cell signaling studies because so many pathways converge and divergent and do so many things simultaneously occurring -confounding processes making it difficult to "see" the real pathway of interest. Human health the same way. That was the main issue I have with most Anatomy and Physiology text books because all teach everything as separate systems and lack the holistic bringing it all together in a functioning human. No cell or organ or system is in isolation.
 
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