Can you tune my Jazz Fest like this?

D

Drum Guy

Member
anybody good at tuning?

tried for ages to get my 2021 Luddy jazz fest 5.5x14 to sound like this -

can't do it - tried 266Hz top, 399Hz bottom, then 268 top, 388 bottom - doesn't cut it and the snare wires buzz like crazy no matter what I do, centered and everything.

SO, re: above link, anybody have a great suggestion for reso and batter head, either notes or tunebot Hz? greatly appreciated folks!
 
crank the bottom head and go medium high tuning on top, 1/4 turn increments until it sounds right. you might want to use a half piece of moongel on the very edge of the drum (i really mean edge, like touching the rim) to remove some snare buzz, or you could tighten the snares a little until you find that spot where it doesn’t buzz as much
 
Fritz Frigursson said:
crank the bottom head and go medium high tuning on top, 1/4 turn increments until it sounds right. you might want to use a half piece of moongel on the very edge of the drum (i really mean edge, like touching the rim) to remove some snare buzz, or you could tighten the snares a little until you find that spot where it doesn’t buzz as much
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thanks for thoughts. yes i tried that kind of tuning, but i never use gel. this snare wires buzz crazy after hit, unless i choke it which i will never do, don’t like

another thing i should mention for everyone is this snare has the 1964 snare beds. they’re not modern

so is tighter reso head a problem? should it be less tight or even more because of those beds? i don’t know vintage snares well. anyone have notes or Hz to try to get that penny lane, lovely rita greatness!
 
I'm hearing a lot of ring and almost no snare sound. I'm not hearing much muffling. Wouldn't a tighter tuning of batter and moon gel etc. take all that ring out of it? Isn't the ring the most prominent attribute of that sound? Also, if it is an older snare the OP is trying to tune, it should have it's own internal muffler.
 
correct and I don’t want to muffle anything lively rita has a beautiful ring metallic rich fullness to it that I just love …also it’s got a great slap

I’ve got the drum, now how to make it work

yes it has an internal muffler which I don’t think is being used but that muffler doesn’t seem to calm down the extra unwanted snare buzz after you hit it
 
Try 300 over 392. Aim for a fundamental of around 196 Hz.

Also, pay attention to how the wires are lying across the resonant head. They'll often be tighter at the snare beds and looser in the center of the drum. You may have to loosen some lugs and tighten others to level them out.
 
yammyfan said:
Try 300 over 392. Aim for a fundamental of around 196 Hz.

Also, pay attention to how the wires are lying across the resonant head. They'll often be tighter at the snare beds and looser in the center of the drum. You may have to loosen some lugs and tighten others to level them out.
Click to expand...
will try very soon. thanks!

so loosen the snare bed lugs do you mean or tighten them?
 
Drum Guy said:
will try very soon. thanks!

so loosen the snare bed lugs do you mean or tighten them?
Click to expand...
If the wires are tight at the beds and loose in the center, tighten the lugs at the beds and (maybe) back off on the others until the wires lie flat against the head. This can help to cure weird, buzzing wire sounds.

I find 196 Hz to be a nice, middle-of-the-road tuning. It covers a lot of ground.
 
Drum Guy said:
thanks for thoughts. yes i tried that kind of tuning, but i never use gel. this snare wires buzz crazy after hit, unless i choke it which i will never do, don’t like

another thing i should mention for everyone is this snare has the 1964 snare beds. they’re not modern

so is tighter reso head a problem? should it be less tight or even more because of those beds? i don’t know vintage snares well. anyone have notes or Hz to try to get that penny lane, lovely rita greatness!
Click to expand...
i don’t get it, you want that sound but you don’t want to muffle, which is how you get that sound? i’m not following. if you use half a moongel on the edge of the drum you get less snare buzz but retain much of the resonance, at least try it? the reso should always be tight, a flappy reso will only worsen the snare buzz and tone. you could try loosening the 4 lugs closest to the snare bed by a half a turn, see if that helps. it also helps to check if the snare wires are nicely set on the strainers because a crooked snare is not very useful. try fewer wires if you want, maybe a 16
 
Fritz Frigursson said:
i don’t get it, you want that sound but you don’t want to muffle, which is how you get that sound? i’m not following. if you use half a moongel on the edge of the drum you get less snare buzz but retain much of the resonance, at least try it? the reso should always be tight, a flappy reso will only worsen the snare buzz and tone. you could try loosening the 4 lugs closest to the snare bed by a half a turn, see if that helps. it also helps to check if the snare wires are nicely set on the strainers because a crooked snare is not very useful. try fewer wires if you want, maybe a 16
Click to expand...


thanks for thoughts on snare bed - this week asap will try loosening the 4 snare bed lugs - I had tightened them very slightly more than others, but maybe loosening more than others, might do it


yammyfan said:
If the wires are tight at the beds and loose in the center, tighten the lugs at the beds and (maybe) back off on the others until the wires lie flat against the head. This can help to cure weird, buzzing wire sounds.

I find 196 Hz to be a nice, middle-of-the-road tuning. It covers a lot of ground.
Click to expand...

thanks very much - helpful, will try asap both of what you and Fritz wrote
 
Fritz Frigursson said:
i don’t get it, you want that sound but you don’t want to muffle, which is how you get that sound? i’m not following. if you use half a moongel on the edge of the drum you get less snare buzz but retain much of the resonance, at least try it? the reso should always be tight, a flappy reso will only worsen the snare buzz and tone. you could try loosening the 4 lugs closest to the snare bed by a half a turn, see if that helps. it also helps to check if the snare wires are nicely set on the strainers because a crooked snare is not very useful. try fewer wires if you want, maybe a 16
Click to expand...
I do not agree. I don't hear much muffling. I hear ringing and nice old-school sound. I don't hear a tight controlled sound or any muffling. If that's the sound OP wants, if you use gel or a wallet or muffle you'll loose that sound in the recording. I think you get that sound from an old drum doing the opposite of what you're recommending. The OP can use internal muffler to control the ring as he sees fit, then work with the reso and batter. But all of the old drums I have sound pretty much like that without much work. Heck I bought a new Sakae Trilogy just so I could get that sound without much work. Gel or external muffling will kill that sound.
 
Rattlin' Bones said:
I do not agree. I don't hear much muffling. I hear ringing and nice old-school sound. I don't hear a tight controlled sound or any muffling. If that's the sound OP wants, if you use gel or a wallet or muffle you'll loose that sound in the recording. I think you get that sound from an old drum doing the opposite of what you're recommending. The OP can use internal muffler to control the ring as he sees fit, then work with the reso and batter. But all of the old drums I have sound pretty much like that without much work. Heck I bought a new Sakae Trilogy just so I could get that sound without much work. Gel or external muffling will kill that sound.
Click to expand...

yes, my thoughts exactly re: muffling: though Fritz F probably suggested that (for which I thank him) only because of my snare buzz complaint, but not what I need to do

the Luddy jazz fest Ringo's using is ringy, metallic in sound, but rich and full body which I love (so does penny lane and walrus), probably because they used 1 mic on the snare wire side and 1 mic on top, and mixed the two as I understand it - but I do like Fritz's recommendation re: loosening the snare bed lugs a tad - never tried that yet - always kept tightening them down more.

So I'm hoping to try ALL replies tomorrow when I can.
 
Rattlin' Bones said:
I do not agree. I don't hear much muffling. I hear ringing and nice old-school sound. I don't hear a tight controlled sound or any muffling. If that's the sound OP wants, if you use gel or a wallet or muffle you'll loose that sound in the recording. I think you get that sound from an old drum doing the opposite of what you're recommending. The OP can use internal muffler to control the ring as he sees fit, then work with the reso and batter. But all of the old drums I have sound pretty much like that without much work. Heck I bought a new Sakae Trilogy just so I could get that sound without much work. Gel or external muffling will kill that sound.
Click to expand...
as I said, and from experience, putting a half piece of moongel right against the rim takes away a lot of the snare wires and keeps quite a bit of resonance. He should at least try it.

@Drum Guy if you are figuratively allergic to moongel or any kind of dampening then you should see if the tension on each lug is equal, otherwise you will always get snare buzz. try switching out your snares to 16 strands and see if that helps
 
I tune my snares to sound pretty much like that recording, and do most of my snare tuning between the reso head and the snare wire tension. I tune the batter last and really for the feel of it and bounce - once I get reso+snares about where I want I then loosen/tighten batter until I have just the right amount of ring. The snare wires are the third leg of this table - their tension impact a lot of the sound. They can muffle a snare sound. And, I'd not worry too much about that buzzing - you may hear it but audience may just hear a nice musical ringing snare on the 2 & 4.

A 2021 Luddy jazz fest should be pretty easy to tune up to sound like that recording. Heck any cheap stencil kit snare from the 60's sounds like that lol. It's New Orleans. Preservation Hall. Frenchman Street. I'm not talking about the super-tight funk tunings. I'm talking old school. On most old snares and probably the new Jazz fest you have to do a lot to get them to not sound like that. Gels/ dampening/muffling all eliminate that beautiful music you're hearing on that recording. Heck we went into studio in 2019 and engineer was wanting to put moon gel and other muffling on my new Sonor snare because he didn't like the ringing. He was in his 30's and only knew the tight funk sound that you hear in 90% of local bars by local pop sorta bands sound high and tight almost like marching snares. No musical note at all no ring. I told him no I wanna hear the music of the snare. It wasn't an overbearing obnoxious ring it was just what you hear on the recording.

My recommendation: Work with the 4 possible combinations of 1. tight reso/ tight snares, 2. tight reso/ loose snares. 3. loose reso/loose snares, and 4. loose reso/tight snares those 4 combos and see what works best. Be systematic. It's only two variables down there. Do it all with a medium batter head tuning. Once you've nailed the right combo with reso+snares, then tighten or loosen batter until you get right feel while maintaining the nice ring and music you're hearing on the recording.
 
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Drum Guy said:
anybody good at tuning?

tried for ages to get my 2021 Luddy jazz fest 5.5x14 to sound like this -

can't do it - tried 266Hz top, 399Hz bottom, then 268 top, 388 bottom - doesn't cut it and the snare wires buzz like crazy no matter what I do, centered and everything.

SO, re: above link, anybody have a great suggestion for reso and batter head, either notes or tunebot Hz? greatly appreciated folks!
Click to expand...
On the recording, the snares buzz like crazy and sound choked at the same time. And the drum definitely has a 'wang' going on. Here's what I think is going on: Batter head tuned to normal tension, not overly tight. Bottom head is actually looser than the top head by quite a bit. Tension snares to suit. No muffling.
 
will try your thoughts tomorrow - today I tried unsuccessfully all the Hz and tuning scenarios kindly offered by everyone (including just for fun as Fritz said, a tiny bit of gel, which i never do) and it just ain't happenin'...

so I'll try your lower reso later, though I believe what you call buzzy wires is just actually close mic placed near the wires

to my ears Ringo's kick, snare and swishy high hats combo sound SO perfectly good, and makes the song.
 
Drum Guy said:
will try your thoughts tomorrow - today I tried unsuccessfully all the Hz and tuning scenarios kindly offered by everyone (including just for fun as Fritz said, a tiny bit of gel, which i never do) and it just ain't happenin'...

so I'll try your lower reso later, though I believe what you call buzzy wires is just actually close mic placed near the wires

to my ears Ringo's kick, snare and swishy high hats combo sound SO perfectly good, and makes the song.
Click to expand...
I think in general, many drummers are too quick to crank the snare side head to maximum tension. The way I tune is actually similar to what Steve Maxwell recommends. First, get the top head where you like it in terms of pitch and stick rebound.

Since snare side heads are so thin, they stretch very easily. A looser head will add to the tone and ring of a drum and a high tension will remove the tone of that head from the equation.

Start with a low to medium low tension and see what it sounds like. Don't like it? Take it up a bit and adjust the snares as needed. Keep doing it until you get a sound that compliments the batter tension.

I have some drums that sound better with the snare side head much higher than the batter and some the other way around. My snares that like lower tension on the snare head are the drums with deeper snare beds. BTW, I have a Jazz fest from 1971 and it sounds best to my ears when the batter and snare side are roughly the same tension. It has a moderate snare bed. Ringo's snare from 62' had a very deep snare bed.
 
You may want to consider investing in some '60s chrome over brass 1.6mm Ludwig hoops, or at the very least some modern 1.6mm chrome over steel hoops from a place like drumfactorydirect. I believe the jazz fest reissue, like other modern Ludwigs, has 2.3mm hoops. 1.6mm hoops will open the tone of the drum up more, especially considering Ringo's doing a lot of rim shot backbeats here.
 
Besides tuning, the other thing to remember is that no drum sounds the same in a room, in person, as it does on a recording. I believe that's especially true when the recording in question was done so long ago.
 
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