Can you hear a schooled drummer?

[piston broke]

I think you can hear a difference but it really has no meaning if you play with skill, vision and sympathy for the music - like Steve Gadd.

Carl Palmer's very schooled and I think you can hear that.

But even with a musical education you still to practice on a drum kit and learn all the limb movements etc. I don't know how many of you are familiar with Eric of ECMProductions. He's an award winning marching percussionist who recently took up drum kit. Judge for yourself if you can hear he's schooled.

 

[JimmyM]

I don't think about it unless I'm on a gig, and even then, not so much if they can hang.

 

[Jimmydrums4fun]

I think you can hear a difference but it really has no meaning if you play with skill, vision and sympathy for the music - like Steve Gadd.

Carl Palmer's very schooled and I think you can hear that.

But even with a musical education you still to practice on a drum kit and learn all the limb movements etc. I don't know how many of you are familiar with Eric of ECMProductions. He's an award winning marching percussionist who recently took up drum kit. Judge for yourself if you can hear he's schooled.

And again, Gadd is extremely schooled he has a degree from Eastman, one of the best percussion studios in the world.

 

[Bozozoid]

Well Mellencamp hired a session drummer to do the first album when Kenny Aronoff was in the band. Imagine that lol!

From the man himself it was the wake up he needed to become one of the most in demand guys for 30 years

It's his rep on the line I guess...his tunes.. so he calls the shots BUT..ive always thought he was an egotistical power trippin maniactical self centered do no wrong my way or the highway holier than thou type!.

 

[mikyok]

It's his rep on the line I guess...his tunes.. so he calls the shots BUT..ive always thought he was an egotistical power trippin maniactical self centered do no wrong my way or the highway holier than thou type!.

Not sure if he's really that well known this side of the drink barring Jack and Jill.

I did see his little hissy fit on stage the other week where he took his ball and went home. That was hilarious and next level unprofessional. That said a lot about the man!

 

[mikyok]

How do you know it was Mellencamp? It could have been the record company or the producer who said, yeah I don’t know this guy. We’re using my guy I know. It could have had nothing to do with Kenny at all.

Probably done to keep studio costs down but the artist would have had a big say. They're paying for it ultimately.

 

[davezedlee]

get them to play a long, drawn-out shuffle... thats usually the biggest sign if he/she struggles, as straight eight note beats are far easier to execute, as hand-to-hand motions are easily learned

swing, nuance, and opposite-hand sticking patterns are such a big part of education... thats why a lot of early band recordings used session sidemen to play the swing/shuffley songs

and to add, very frequent crashing on the "1", and all fills and phrases are entirely built on RLRLRLRL for EVERYTHING

 

[spleeeeen]

How do you know it was Mellencamp? It could have been the record company or the producer who said, yeah I don’t know this guy. We’re using my guy I know. It could have had nothing to do with Kenny at all.

Kenny tells the story here:

Kenny Aronoff: The Unexpected Turn! | DRUM! Magazine

Get to know more about Kenny Aronoff - a man of such prolific success - and the most difficult situations he’s ever found himself in.

drummagazine.com

"I had just gotten into the John Mellencamp band, and there had been 50 guys at the audition. Five weeks later we’re in L.A. recording at the famous Cherokee Studios. I’m 27 years old, I’m ecstatic, and I’d finally gotten my big break. After two days in the studio we have a band meeting and I am told by Mellencamp that I’m not playing on the record. My dream had just come true, and now this guy just took my purpose in life away from me."

 

[wildbill]

I can only tell good, and not so good.

I think schooling gives you rules to break in order to develop your own style.

 

[Push pull stroke]

Not sure if he's really that well known this side of the drink barring Jack and Jill.

I did see his little hissy fit on stage the other week where he took his ball and went home. That was hilarious and next level unprofessional. That said a lot about the man!

Wow. Well, at least he’s a heck of songwriter lol

 

[Trigger]

I can. They all play that same tony williams ride flam drum fill.

 

[ravenson]

Not always by hearing , but frequently by watching . We play a very visual instrument . I can spot a Gruber/ Berklee disciple almost immediately . Easy to identify a New Orleans drummer by the greasy bass drum and second line stuff that's passed on from one generation to the next . Schooled NOLA drummers can be as incorrect as they want to be because they've been taught how to land on their feet withou stepping on anybody's toes ....

 

[Multijd]

Depends on what kind of "school" you are talking about.

Music School Graduate: They generally overplay, have a "I went to music school so I'm better than you" attitude and are generally all about themselves, and choose to play in bands where they can "show thier stuff", like weird Zappa type fusion bands that very few would really ever pay to go see. They won't play in cover or rock bands, because it is "beneath them".

School of gig experience and real life graduate: Play what's best for the song, have a freindly and down to earth attitude, and are team players. They adapt to that bands style to try to make them successful. They'll play any kind of music they love, just for the joy of playing.

Every once in a while, you'll find a mix of both schools in the same drummer. It's rare, but they are out there.

This is wildly out of touch. Big assumptions, generalizations and overall prejudices being made. It’s sounds more like a list of things that you dislike about some drummers and a way for you to judge, compartmentalize, segregate and scapegoat.

 

[Cmdr. Ross]

We're up to response 31 without someone providing a good example of a schooled drummer you can hear based on playing alone.

And while I see that, you're answer didn't offer anything more than the other 30 people did.
So why can't we hear one in your opinion?

 

[green glass drum]

Yes I can....unless they are faking a no-school sound.....the good ones can do that.
OK.....5th period is Now.

 

[n2xlr8n]

In many cases I can tell the ones that have "studied" from the ones that may be self-taught, but that doesn't negate talent.

Folks that played and recorded with Porcaro rarely if ever mentioned his chops- only his ability to play the perfect part for the song, with incredible feel. You don't learn feel in School, imo.

 

[Syncopated_1]

Yes. You can. And it's painfully obvious.

 

[Morrisman]

I hear it in the technique, especially dynamics - controlled, even ghost notes, smooth crescendos, loud accents. All perfectly in time. An instructor has definitely heard their playing at some point and challenged them to play softer and louder without losing timing and feel. The playing flows effortlessly.

On the flip side, I’ve heard jazz graduates playing too softly in a rock setting, or playing the wrong beat for well known songs, especially shuffles. Also using a bop kit with high tuning to play rock - just doesn’t sound right.

 

[Anon La Ply]

I can usually tell if a drummer is schooled or not by the way they approach their timekeeping and fills. I can sometimes tell by the way they execute. But not always. It all depends on the amount of natural ability that exists. I saw a cover band briefly last night in Marlboro, NY. The drummer could barely execute what he needed to do. He just didn't have the chops that an educated drummer would have had. I mean no disrespect to self taught folks here.

When I was playing guitar in a band several years ago, the drummer, a friend of mine, who I hand picked, decided to sell his house and move to Vermont, so we replaced him with a guy we all knew from years back who had been a working drummer in the area for a long time. We just brought him in, no audition. He was a big letdown from the guy we had, who was a trained drummer with immaculate chops, This new guy was unsuited for the music we were doing. We tried taking the easy way out, by skipping the audition process. Big mistake. We had a couple rehearsals and played two gigs, and our female singer/guitarist and I insisted on firing the guy, which we did. Because we had work booked, I took over the drum chair at that point.

I always had trouble finding drummers I liked when I played guitar in bands, which I think is a natural thing, and of my own doing. My standards were probably much higher because I am a drummer, so I tended to pick apart what the drummers were doing. In one case, we had a guy with unsteady time who couldn't get endings right. He had to go. And he did; I fired him. Another guy we had just phoned it in all night. He was gone too. My friend John, the one who moved to Vermont, was the best drummer we had.

I agree fully, Bob.

I remember auditioning drummers when I was playing (simplistic) keys with a band. It's weird, as the parts seemed so obvious. Most simply played too loud, without backing off enough to properly hear the bass or vocs. One old guy was ear-splitting but he had a good sound and time, but he w/couldn't play fills. Another turned up with one of those flat practice kits that sounded like balls, and insisted that he would only join a band with three female backup singers. Uh huh.

In impatience, we accepted an overplayer with reasonable dynamics, but the singer soon said we had to sack him, and we understood. That mistake and correction brought joy to no one.

We had a good jam with a friend of the guitarist who agreed to fill in, who was playing with a name band. It wouldn't have worked because he only played at fff. That was the end of my keys "career" and I ended up (rustily) back on kit.

But are we hard judges? If a solid, only somewhat studied drummer turned up with a good attitude and ears, would you have said no, Bob?

PS. You can tell trained players because of the way they use rudiments and partial rudiments in their playing, plus time, plus the way they move.

 

[ToneT]

Hmmmmmm........
Cover band(s) mentioned...
Schooled? Play the damn song! That's what matters most!