Can anyone ID this kit, or just eyeball the diameter of the bass drum?

Stroman

Platinum Member
So much information available here, brilliant.
For what it's worth, in pictures 4 and 6 the bass drum looks more like an 18" to me. Unhelpful I know. That, or it being a 20", could have the effect of making the tom toms look bigger so they might be a 10" or a 12" mounted tom and a 14" floor.
But who know!!

I'm not a betting man, but I'd still wager that BD is a 20". I'm also certain the FT is a 16". The only one I'd even wonder about is the rack tom, but if pressed, I'd still bet on it being a 12", too. :) The proportions look exactly like my old kit.
 

sacco

Senior Member

Al Strange

Well-known member
Anyone know anything about the cymbals in terms of quality? Would be interested to hear from our friends in that neck of the woods... :unsure:
 

AVaughn

Junior Member
Thank you so much to everyone for their replies. This has helped a lot, seems like 12", 16", and 20" are the most accurate dimensions here, with probably a 14" snare. Also, big thanks to "Swissward" (wow, what a name), for correctly identifying manufacturer, that is very skilful work.

Just take a look at this "Amati" kit i found on google images, take a look at that logo, and compare it to this pic of the drummer from the band, playing on a TV broadcast. That is definitely the logo!!

In the meanwhile, I hope this was at least a bit of fun for those that participated, I doubt much discussion takes place on soviet matters here... The drummer that played this kit was Yuriy Genbachev, he played in one of my favourite ensembles, both with technical proficiency, and with reserve when it was appropriate.

80e1dc4fef32b454fc60e87330d0c752.jpggenb1.png
 

Yamaha Rider

Well-known member
Sorry can't really help...strange though, this kind of group is called a VIA (ВИА) Vocal & Instrumental Ensemble. They were generally state-owned/managed etc and played state-written songs.

I had always assumed their equipment would be made by some state-owned producer too - in which case there'd only be one or two brands and you could probably hunt down a list of likely candidates, things like RMIF (Musical Instrument Factory Of Riga) except....they're playing a Teisco?!?! very surprising. And even if you argue that the keys only appear in the colour (aka newer) photos, the kit hasn't seemed to have changed at all, as you say, from the older pics.

Generally USSR drums also had massive oversized lugs which that does not look like it had, so all I can really say is it's probably not a soviet drum.
"They were generally state-owned/managed etc and played state-written songs."
Can we all take a moment to ponder that statement? And count our decadent Western blessings...
 

timmdrum

Silver Member
Side note- in the first couple of pics, the finish appears red, and not sparkle (best I can tell in grainy pics), then in subsequent color pics, more of a gold or champagne sparkle. I wonder- different kits, same kit re-finished, or just a lighting issue? :unsure:
 

wraub

Well-known member
To assume that no Western pop stars were produced under the same sorts of operations may be a mistake... ;)

"They were generally state-owned/managed etc and played state-written songs."
Can we all take a moment to ponder that statement? And count our decadent Western blessings...
 

AVaughn

Junior Member
To say a word about soviet/russian ensembles of the early 70s (when things were really going well), yes the bands that actually recorded on the state owned record label, and who toured, such groups were under a great scrutiny, and pressure was on them to ensure that a great number of compositions (and poems) from the "government sanctioned guilds of composers and songwriters" were played, and this included songs about war, and typical non-partisan topics.

That said, within the compositions that the ensemble had to work with, there was still room for innovation and creativity, this was expressed in the form of the arrangement (for both instruments, and vocal parts) and things like solos, too. Some of the "sanctioned" compositions were actually quite brilliant, too, believe it or not, and you would often find that multiple modern ensembles had their own version of the song, and the public was split in their preference for them.

Edit: Forgot to mention that on certain occasions, the composers would work with the ensemble to ensure everyone has the same vision for what the end result should be, such cooperation also helped produce "hits".

The band who's pictures I posted, in 1972-3 they were already referencing bands such as Beatles and Blood Sweat & Tears, and their lead guitar player* had quite a "nasty" fuzz+wah tone, to which I haven't been able to find comparable "western" version.

"Smaller" bands that were not so much under the scrutiny of government watch were able to get away with much edgier things however, and much harsher tones. One of the earliest examples of true "rock" to come from the USSR was a 1972 concert recording, as long as you sang in Russian and didn't blatantly "imitate" western styles, it seems the music was acceptable, although of course you'd never get to record anything in an official capacity... Not sure how interesting any of that is, however.
 
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Yamaha Rider

Well-known member
My money’s on 10” Tom, 14” floor, 20” kick... :unsure: Forgive me if I’m wrong, I was Russian around measuring drums at the time...😁:)(y)
I
To assume that no Western pop stars were produced under the same sorts of operations may be a mistake... ;)
Well...there was certainly a lot of profit-driven industrially manufactured factory product made. And paradoxically, some of it was as good as any music made purely for art's sake.
 

Stroman

Platinum Member
I just noticed something interesting. In pic #3, you can see that the lug spacing on the rack tom is different on the top vs the bottom of the drum. They’re closer together on the bottom, indicating there are more lugs on the bottom than on top. That’s kinda throwing me as to eyeballing the size of that tom. In most pics it looks like an 8x12. But in that pic, it looks more like an 8x13. Regardless, I can guarantee you it’s not a 10”.

As for the other drums, the floor tom is 16x16 and the bass drum is 20”, almost certainly at a 14” depth (I can’t tell the depth from the pics, but almost all bass drums back then were 14” deep).
I believe the lugs are offset, but I don't think there are different numbers of lugs top and bottom.
 

TK-421

Senior Member
I believe the lugs are offset, but I don't think there are different numbers of lugs top and bottom.
Go back to the 3rd pic and look at the distance between the top set of lugs and the bottom set. The bottom set definitely appear to be closer together than the top set. That would indicate there are more lugs on the bottom. You can see the same thing in the last pic in that series, but it's not as clear of an image.

Screen Shot 2021-02-03 at 5.51.07 PM.png
 
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incrementalg

Gold Member
Thank you so much to everyone for their replies. This has helped a lot, seems like 12", 16", and 20" are the most accurate dimensions here, with probably a 14" snare. Also, big thanks to "Swissward" (wow, what a name), for correctly identifying manufacturer, that is very skilful work.

Just take a look at this "Amati" kit i found on google images, take a look at that logo, and compare it to this pic of the drummer from the band, playing on a TV broadcast. That is definitely the logo!!

In the meanwhile, I hope this was at least a bit of fun for those that participated, I doubt much discussion takes place on soviet matters here... The drummer that played this kit was Yuriy Genbachev, he played in one of my favourite ensembles, both with technical proficiency, and with reserve when it was appropriate.

View attachment 100657View attachment 100659
I like the look of those. Now I’m curious to learn more about them. Off to search the web...
 

Stroman

Platinum Member
Go back to the 3rd pic and look at the distance between the top set of lugs and the bottom set. The bottom set definitely appear to be closer together than the top set. That would indicate there are more lugs on the bottom. You can see the same thing in the last pic in that series, but it's not as clear of an image.

View attachment 100668
Maybe. I see what you are seeing, but I'm not sure it's not an illusion of perspective. Check out the closer pic of the set in post 25. I realize it's not the same exact set as in the OP, but they just look offset in that pic.

I honestly don't know for sure, but my initial thought was that they're offset. I can't imagine how exactly that would work or why they would even make a drum with different numbers of lugs top and bottom. Curious!

EDIT - I had to sketch it out for myself, but I do see how it could work now, lol. I still have no guess as to why.
 

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Lee-Bro

Senior Member
Go back to the 3rd pic and look at the distance between the top set of lugs and the bottom set. The bottom set definitely appear to be closer together than the top set. That would indicate there are more lugs on the bottom. You can see the same thing in the last pic in that series, but it's not as clear of an image.

View attachment 100668


You should know better to trust what you see in a photo that was obviously taken from the grassy knoll.
 

TK-421

Senior Member
Maybe. I see what you are seeing, but I'm not sure it's not an illusion of perspective. Check out the closer pic of the set in post 25. I realize it's not the same exact set as in the OP, but they just look offset in that pic.

I honestly don't know for sure, but my initial thought was that they're offset. I can't imagine how exactly that would work or why they would even make a drum with different numbers of lugs top and bottom. Curious!

EDIT - I had to sketch it out for myself, but I do see how it could work now, lol. I still have no guess as to why.
Your diagram looks like it could be accurate. I actually measured the distance from lug tip to lug tip for the top and bottom pair, and the distance between top lugs is greater than the bottom lugs. Why they would choose to put more lugs on the bottom is beyond me, but that does appear to be the case.
 

AVaughn

Junior Member
Thanks again to everyone for their continued discussion of this, I had not predicted that the kit itself would be all that interesting when making this thread, seeing geometric analysis is unexpected, to say the least.

I have uploaded a few of the band's edgiest and best tracks, all are from live and concert performances, (not what you'd find if you searched for their name). The video descriptions give some commentary on why the songs were chosen.

Thanks to everyone again for what turned out to be a much more lively discussion than I had anticipated. My questions were answered and then some!
 

cbphoto

Gold Member
...yes the bands that actually recorded on the state owned record label, and who toured, such groups were under a great scrutiny, and pressure was on them to ensure that a great number of compositions (and poems) from the "government sanctioned guilds of composers and songwriters" were played, and this included songs about war, and typical non-partisan topics.
Is this music the reason the 1991 Monsters of Rock concert was so popular with the Russians? 🤔
 
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