Can a Rim Be Too Heavy?

TK-421 said:
Got it. Looks like you're looking for more snare response. I'd try a wider set of snare wires, maybe a 30- or even a 42-strand set. Those will absolutely give you more snare response, but only if the snare beds are wide enough to accommodate them. I just went the other way, replacing the 42-strand set on my Gretsch USA bronze snare with a 24-strand set. I prefer that sound, but it sounds like you'd prefer a wider set of wires.

BTW, at 2:57 in that video, Stanton turns his snare upside down and you can clearly see that he's got a 42-strand set of wires on there.

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I am at least looking for SOME snare response. That Szendofi vid has no snare response. Heck just leaves the snares off you'd not be able to tell the difference.
 
In addition to trying different hoops, you can adjust the reso head tuning for more snare wire response. Try turning the four lugs at the ends of the wires higher or lower, and observe how it changes the wire sound.
 
TK-421 said:
We're clearly not watching the same video. Or at least not on the same quality of speakers.
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Bongoman and JDA think the same thing - choked. Anyway, never the way I want my snare to sound. I'm going towards Stanton Moore tunings where you canner the snares. W'll see how lite weight rims change the sound.
 
"you don't want a money-pit"
- old car dealer Joe
😁
everybody says 'hoops hoops hoops' hoops ain't cheap
and when you spend that much on a luxury car...errr drum
you expect the fold down tables and wine chill armrest box in the rear seating area to work.. oops sorry Rolls..
 
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I certainly don't think the Peter Szendofi video sounds choked at all. That drum is open and sounds beautiful to me, though granted not snarey like a Supra. I hear the wood shell speaking. I'm really not sure what about it sounds choked to you guys.

Anyway... high-end Tama drums are shipping with looser-wound lighter-weight hi-carbon 20-strand snare wires, and they're not particularly "snarey" sounding. If you want bright snappy wires, those are not it. The Tama hi-carbon wires are very similar to Canopus Vintage Dry, and I do think those are generally too dark and subtle for wood snares.

Stanton Moore's drums are shallow Dunnett Titaniums, and Ronn ships those with Taiwanese-made 42-strand hi-carbon snares. Totally different snare response, and in my opinion is way too much in the room, but maybe that's what you're after.

I recommend just slapping a set of generic chrome wires on the Star to see if that does anything for you.
 
Co
Rattlin' Bones said:
I got a smokin' deal on a Tama Star snare. It came from a retailer in Japan. I made a very low offer and they accepted.

Anyway, I received drum today. Star snares are thin shells with re-rings. But judging from the total weight of assembled shell you'd think it was a 12mm solid shell. It must weigh 2x as much as my Sakae Trilogy.

I am thinking the excess weight has to be the rims. One reason is this: I can't get it to sound very good. Low tuning is horrible, and it chokes quickly when I try even a medium tuning.

I tried lots of heads. The defacto standard Remo Amb coated was better that an Aquarian Focus X with and without dots I tried an Aquarian regular coated and it was a bit better than the Remo Amb. FYI The Aquarian Focus X without dot is what I use on Trilogy.

It's gotta be the rims are choking the life out of the drum. Tomorrow I will try a lightweight rim on batter and see what happens.

Comments? Suggestions? Observations?
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Could there be something off with the bearing edges?
 
  • Roll Eyes
Reactions: jda
why does he have to spend a nickle.
Either accept it as it is (it wasn't cheap folks!) or pass it on
Is not like he found 'a drum' in a second-hand store and it needs restored

😁
 
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ToneT said:
Co

Could there be something off with the bearing edges?
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Come on man this is Japanese Quality at the highest extremes

It seems I'm learning there are Multiple "Flavors" of the "Star" series snare
i think (always debatable) wrong flavor got picked

Rocky Road was ordered and received Mint Apricot
 
jda said:
Come on man this is Japanese Quality at the highest extremes

It seems I'm learning there are Multiple "Flavors" of the "Star" series snare
i think (always debatable) wrong flavor got picked

Rocky Road was ordered and received Mint Apricot
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Doesn't matter what line it is.
 
ToneT said:
Doesn't matter what line it is.
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that's what I'm trying to tell him ;)

buy a pre-loved 60s classic !
can't go wrong (or tough to
 
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dwsabianguy said:
…high-end Tama drums are shipping with looser-wound lighter-weight hi-carbon 20-strand snare wires, and they're not particularly "snarey" sounding. If you want bright snappy wires, those are not it. The Tama hi-carbon wires are very similar to Canopus Vintage Dry, and I do think those are generally too dark and subtle for wood snares.

Stanton Moore's drums are shallow Dunnett Titaniums, and Ronn ships those with Taiwanese-made 42-strand hi-carbon snares.
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We disagree about that video but I do agree with much of this. The Tama high carbon 20’s are more subtle, and anyone who wants more bright snare sound should trade out those wires. And Stanton’s sound is as bright and wiry as it gets.

Now, I happen to love the sound of the Tama wires, and I get plenty of snare response *for me*, and this may point out how I tune and set up my drums for a much more “open”, free, not-choked sound, which makes those wires a perfect fit.

Another thing is hearing range. If you don’t hear anything wrong with the upper harmonics in that snare video, *and* the Tama wires are too dark, that may point to some hearing loss in the higher frequencies. Just a side note about “listening to the same video”.
 
switch the Vistalite snares to the Tama
and see what
 
bongoman said:
We disagree about that video but I do agree with much of this. The Tama high carbon 20’s are more subtle, and anyone who wants more bright snare sound should trade out those wires. And Stanton’s sound is as bright and wiry as it gets.

Now, I happen to love the sound of the Tama wires, and I get plenty of snare response *for me*, and this may point out how I tune and set up my drums for a much more “open”, free, not-choked sound, which makes those wires a perfect fit.

Another thing is hearing range. If you don’t hear anything wrong with the upper harmonics in that snare video, *and* the Tama wires are too dark, that may point to some hearing loss in the higher frequencies. Just a side note about “listening to the same video”.
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I thought about wires. I'm going for an open sound, too, no choking, with lots of star wire sound, so I'll stick with the Tama snares.

Must be a modern thing to prefer to tune snare drums so high they don't sound like snare drums anymore. I looked at DCP video of a 14x5.5 Tama Star Maple and it sounded choked, too. Just not my thang. I guess I spent too much time listening to NOLA drummers .

NOLA Sound
 
Rattlin' Bones said:
Yes that's pretty much what it sounds like - which to me is horrible. Die cast and with additional dampening on top of head.

Where is the snare sound? Sounds like a high tuning of a 10" tom.

I want my snares to sound like a snare drum and be able to hear the sounds of the snares. If that is best I can expect then I'll be selling it. Gosh that sounds awful for a snare drum.
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I can hear the slightly choked sound you're talking about and I don't care for it either. It doesn't sound terrible per se, (I've definitely heard much worse), but it sounds stifled without the rimshots. The snare sound is also lacking.

To be honest, the majority of Tama Star snares have not blown me away in the sound department. They sound "good" but almost never great. An exception is the Star Maple Reserve with brass hoops that @cbphoto posted above. (specifically the high tuning sounds great to me. The lower tuning sounds honky.)
 
PS: I couldn't resist.

Lto4kpa.png

@Rattlin' Bones
 
IBitePrettyHard said:
An exception is the Star Maple Reserve with brass hoops that @cbphoto posted above. (specifically the high tuning sounds great to me. The lower tuning sounds honky.)
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I bought it to try out a single-ply snare. I'd never tried/played one. I went with the pimped hoops model in the hopes that, if I ever sell it, it'll hold value compared to the non-"reserve" snare drums.

@Rattlin' Bones : the "sound focus" rings are installed to reduce overtones (i.e., focus the sound). According to the video posted by Drum Center Portsmouth, when Tama developed their Starclassic line, the ply construction was strong enough to ditch the reinforcement rings. When they developed the Star line, some players (e.g., Simon Phillips) still wanted the rings. Since they didn't add strength to the shells, they dubbed them "sound focus rings". I'm not sure if this construction design also applies to snare drums, tho.

Also, Star drums have a wider snare bed than other Tama models, so slap on that 42-strand snappy and give it a run.

feat_Snappy_Bed.jpg
 
bongoman said:
Another thing is hearing range. If you don’t hear anything wrong with the upper harmonics in that snare video, *and* the Tama wires are too dark, that may point to some hearing loss in the higher frequencies. Just a side note about “listening to the same video”.
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Or maybe, you know, just maybe, people have different tastes. I am a recording engineer in my day job and I test my hearing once a year. I can still hear up to 20k, and snare harmonics are nowhere near that. They usually lie around the 700-2k range, and you'd have to have severely damaged hearing to lose that range. I think it's ridiculous and insulting to claim that people who don't agree with your subjective assessments disagree because their hearing is bad.
 
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