Can a Rim Be Too Heavy?

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
I got a smokin' deal on a Tama Star snare. It came from a retailer in Japan. I made a very low offer and they accepted.

Anyway, I received drum today. Star snares are thin shells with re-rings. But judging from the total weight of assembled shell you'd think it was a 12mm solid shell. It must weigh 2x as much as my Sakae Trilogy.

I am thinking the excess weight has to be the rims. One reason is this: I can't get it to sound very good. Low tuning is horrible, and it chokes quickly when I try even a medium tuning.

I tried lots of heads. The defacto standard Remo Amb coated was better that an Aquarian Focus X with and without dots I tried an Aquarian regular coated and it was a bit better than the Remo Amb. FYI The Aquarian Focus X without dot is what I use on Trilogy.

It's gotta be the rims are choking the life out of the drum. Tomorrow I will try a lightweight rim on batter and see what happens.

Comments? Suggestions? Observations?
 
I’ve owned a few Star snares. They don’t all come with the same hoops, so we can’t generalize about Stars having heavy hoops. The diecasts are the same as anyone else’s standard dcs, the triple flange are standard too. The only oddballs are the solid brass hoops, which come in two varieties in the Star line: satin finish 2.3 mm with an inward top curve, and polished 2.3 mm with the top edge shaved off.

It is entirely possible that yours came with diecasts, and that they don’t sound good on that particular shell. Definitely try something low mass.
 
when I noticed the previous owners' slight bend and had to replace the top hoop on my Drum Doctor studio 3 ply w/ rings 6L WFL 6.5
I liked the openness of the 1.6 mm steel more than the 2.3 steel on that drum
so that's what's on it
ordered from DFD

I can't better the factory zinc cast hoops original equipment fitted to 60s and 70s Gretsch brass and wood snares
trying to better or change them is pure folly and trying just removes deflates their character

The other two 60s Ludwig/40s Wfl vintage 3P w/ring snares I keep
retain their original nickle over brass hoops

I own three -1 60s Ludwig 2 40s WFL three Gretsch- 2 60s 70s brass 1 60s wood snare
been stable for decades
 
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Based on my small experiences, [Tama] brass hoops let the drum ring the most (in a most musical way, they're almost like wind chimes when hung by a finger and struck). Steel hoops provide slightly less sustain than brass and with less singular tone. Die cast virtually eliminate overtones.

With my small quiver of six snares, I have pairs of die cast and brass hoops that I switch as desired to achieve a sound/sustain I'm searching for. They provide an even greater variety of sounds in addition to various drum heads. It's like having extra snare drums at not that much expense.

My Star Maple came with fancy brass hoops and it sounded open with plenty of overtones. This was great for live sound, but when I tried recording with it, I switched it to die cast for a much more focused sound with less overtones.

Tama Star Reserve Maple Snare 04.jpeg

⬇️ Same snare but with a die cast hoop on the batter side.

IMG_0030.jpeg
 
OP, can you tell us which specific drum you got? Size and shell material?

I didn’t keep any of the Star snares I bought, even though they were visually gorgeous and had premium components. With each I ended up not *in love* with the sound. For one example I had a 6.5 bubinga, and it was much drier than I expected, with no distinct shell tone. Then I read their website and they actually said they designed it for an extra dry tone. My bad for making an assumption otherwise!
 
Oh yeah try some 1.6 mm triple flange on that bad boy, or some not-too-thick brass hoops.
Yes that is what I will try. Tama calls the re-rings "Sound Control" or something like. Not reinforcement rings. They must be heavier than the rings used on my Sakae Trilogy. The weight of the Tama Star drum with no rims is still much heavier than the Trilogy. The Tama lugs must also weigh more. I'll find some 1.6 rims and put them on.
 
I've tried and I've resigned myself @Rattlin' Bones to the fact that I can't get comfortable with anything built after (maybe some snare stands) 1975-6

there's a period of time era where everything is where it's supposed to be and sounds the way it should
-no brick walls - in other words- freedom - happiness

at first I thought it was something as minor as throne height but that's not it
it's something much deeper; the older stuff just sounds - and fits- like hand in glove
most everything new I have is up for sale Only problem: finding a buyer
 
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Hmmm, the Tama Star Maple 5.5x14 snare with die cast hoops sounds pretty killer in this video. And as a Gretsch guy, ALL of my drums have die cast hoops (or those nearly-as-heavy 302 hoops on a couple Brooklyn snares I own). And I LOVE the way they all sound. I've seen people complaining about die cast hoops supposedly "choking" a drum, but I've never experienced that personally.

Are you sure you're tuning it properly?

 
I've tried and I've resigned myself @Rattlin' Bones to the fact that I can't get comfortable with anything built after (maybe some snare stands) 1975-6

there's a period of time era where everything is where it's supposed to be and sounds the way it should
-no brick walls - in other words- freedom & happiness

at first I thought it was something as minor as throne height but that's not it
it's something much deeper; the older stuff just sounds - and fits like hand in glove
only problem: most everything new I have up for sale finding a buyer
I think you are, for the most part, quite right. With a few exceptions.

I've never run across a snare as versatile with as wide a tuning as Sakae Trilogy either modern snares or vintage snares.

Modern version of Tama Superstar Classic Maple kits they are soooo thin 5mm no re-rings and they sure rival vintage kits.

Others, too, but risk going off-topic.
 
what's this about wide tuning
I'm the same guy
I don't change tuning I set each different drum where I like best and maintain it
I don't imagine taking down a tuning of a drum then taking it back up the next day or following week
it's possible but
 
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Hmmm, the Tama Star Maple 5.5x14 snare with die cast hoops sounds pretty killer in this video. And as a Gretsch guy, ALL of my drums have die cast hoops (or those nearly-as-heavy 302 hoops on a couple Brooklyn snares I own). And I LOVE the way they all sound. I've seen people complaining about die cast hoops supposedly "choking" a drum, but I've never experienced that personally.

Are you sure you're tuning it properly?

Yes that's pretty much what it sounds like - which to me is horrible. Die cast and with additional dampening on top of head.

Where is the snare sound? Sounds like a high tuning of a 10" tom.

I want my snares to sound like a snare drum and be able to hear the sounds of the snares. If that is best I can expect then I'll be selling it. Gosh that sounds awful for a snare drum.
 
what's the saying, "It's all been done before, now there's just different ones"
Armand said it
"We can't make a better cymbal, just different ones"
Applies to snares and drums too.
That does sound sort of one-trick/ specialized/
opposite of the all-scope archetypes

Now if I could just get used to- find the love- for power toms 😁
 
Yes that's pretty much what it sounds like - which to me is horrible. Die cast and with additional dampening on top of head.

Where is the snare sound? Sounds like a high tuning of a 10" tom.

I want my snares to sound like a snare drum and be able to hear the sounds of the snares. If that is best I can expect then I'll be selling it. Gosh that sounds awful for a snare drum.
Well, he only puts the cloth on the head after playing it wide open for 2 minutes. I'm with you in that I don't prefer the muffled sound, but before he does that it sounds wide open and killer. Maybe it's tuned higher than you like? Also, are you watching it with headphones or good speakers, or are you watching it on a phone? Because that makes a huge difference.

Mind posting a video of what you think is a killer snare sound? That will help in understanding where you're coming from.
 
Ok I’m listening to that Szendofi video on a good sound system, and that drum sounds totally congested, like it has clogged sinuses. You want to know what a “choked” drum sounds like, there you go.

Some drums really do sound great with diecasts though. I have a couple vintage thin shells with no rerings where DCs give them a more focused and punchy sound. And with a metal shell, a DC on the batter can help tame some weird harmonics. But it’s all specific to the shell.
 
Ok I’m listening to that Szendofi video on a good sound system, and that drum sounds totally congested, like it has clogged sinuses. You want to know what a “choked” drum sounds like, there you go.

Some drums really do sound great with diecasts though. I have a couple vintage thin shells with no rerings where DCs give them a more focused and punchy sound. And with a metal shell, a DC on the batter can help tame some weird harmonics. But it’s all specific to the shell.
Yes that may be the worst sounding "snare" drum I ever heard. Because it doesn't sound like a snare drum. You can't hear the snares. And I'm listening with excellent headphones the ones I use on my $$$$$expensive stereo system.
 
Well, he only puts the cloth on the head after playing it wide open for 2 minutes. I'm with you in that I don't prefer the muffled sound, but before he does that it sounds wide open and killer. Maybe it's tuned higher than you like? Also, are you watching it with headphones or good speakers, or are you watching it on a phone? Because that makes a huge difference.

Mind posting a video of what you think is a killer snare sound? That will help in understanding where you're coming from.

Stanton Moore. Long arduous tedious video on tuning. Around 15:50 it's still a pretty high tuning, but it still sounds like a snare drum. You can hear the snares. Around 16:05 without snare weight is a pretty great - to me - snare sound. I'd still call it a high tuning for me, but at least it sounds like a snare drum. 17:50 it gets better and closer to my sound - what he calls a NOLA second line sound. He thinks the same way I do - for an emphasis on buzz rolls he tunes lower and uses more slack snares. I'd probably tune it even lower. But this video gets close to what I like in a snare drum tuning.

Stanton Moore Snare
 
Stanton Moore. Long arduous tedious video on tuning. Around 15:50 it's still a pretty high tuning, but it still sounds like a snare drum. You can hear the snares. Around 16:05 without snare weight is a pretty great - to me - snare sound. I'd still call it a high tuning for me, but at least it sounds like a snare drum. 17:50 it gets better and closer to my sound - what he calls a NOLA second line sound. He thinks the same way I do - for an emphasis on buzz rolls he tunes lower and uses more slack snares. I'd probably tune it even lower. But this video gets close to what I like in a snare drum tuning.

Stanton Moore Snare
Got it. Looks like you're looking for more snare response. I'd try a wider set of snare wires, maybe a 30- or even a 42-strand set. Those will absolutely give you more snare response, but only if the snare beds are wide enough to accommodate them. I just went the other way, replacing the 42-strand set on my Gretsch USA bronze snare with a 24-strand set. I prefer that sound, but it sounds like you'd prefer a wider set of wires.

BTW, at 2:57 in that video, Stanton turns his snare upside down and you can clearly see that he's got a 42-strand set of wires on there.

Screenshot 2024-06-13 at 3.24.22 PM.png
 
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