Burying the stick in the snare...New Technique?

T

Tbonez

Member
I've seen a new trend of a lot of drummers (especially gospel drummers) burying their stick in the snare head for the back beat without letting it rebound. It appears as if they are doing it as part of a rim shot. I really like the sound but what is the reasoning for this and how are people not injuring themselves from not letting the stick rebound. Im assuming its for sound and a way of self muting the snare.

You can catch the technique at the intro of this video or at the end when he is playing with the song

 
It's a technique, bad technique! You can see the strain in the wrist and forearm.

You're gonna wreck your wrists and forearms playing like that. If your snare is a bit lively dampen it. No need to hurt yourself.

Don't try that with toms, could get expensive when you dent all the heads.
 
mikyok said:
It's a technique, bad technique! You can see the strain in the wrist and forearm.

You're gonna wreck your wrists and forearms playing like that. If your snare is a bit lively dampen it. No need to hurt yourself.

Don't try that with toms, could get expensive when you dent all the heads.
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Yep...I tried it for one day and all of the energy gets pushed right back up into the wrist and arm...I cant imagine playing a three hour gig like that. It does produce a very unique muffled sound that I like, however.
 
My teacher would hit the drum and press the stick into the head to bend the note. He would also sometimes use the other stick to hit either the head or the stick pressing into the head. He is an old school jazz guy.

I'm pretty sure this is an age old thing that is being discovered with the newer crowd.
 
CommanderRoss said:
I agree.
Some make it work though. Thomas Lang comes right to mind. And he does it playing with those signature logs of his...
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I was gonna mention Thomas Lang, his is a really relaxed stroke and his palms are facing down and the stroke is really natural.

Basically a Moeller rimshot. I love tree trunk sticks too. Much easier to get the stick to do the work for you.
 
Actually I started doing this a few months ago on fat back beat sorta tunes when I have a fast rhythm going on hi-hat. It keeps my left hand from getting in the way of my right hand. I started it quite naturally I didn't read about it as a technique. It came about organically as a way to eliminate bounce of stick when bounce isn't needed. I cam play as a single stroke, or else I'll crush it to play a bit longer note. No pain no issues.
 
I see it, I hear it and don’t like how it feels in my hand and don’t like how i make it sound (choked).

The first time I saw it when watching a video with Ron Tutt. Very tasteful playing, but not my style.
 
mikyok said:
It's a technique, bad technique! You can see the strain in the wrist and forearm.

You're gonna wreck your wrists and forearms playing like that. If your snare is a bit lively dampen it. No need to hurt yourself.

Don't try that with toms, could get expensive when you dent all the heads.
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YES. If this guy plays like this all the time, he is going to be sorry he played like this when he gets old.

I use this no rebound technique on a few songs. But it's a very gentle soft thing on some slow blues and jazz tunes.
It's done to shorten the note/sound of the snare drum.

.
 
There's a time and place for everything, seems to me that being able to do that would be useful in expanding your dynamic control options.
 
Hollywood Jim said:
YES. If this guy plays like this all the time, he is going to be sorry he played like this when he gets old.

I use this no rebound technique on a few songs. But it's a very gentle soft thing on some slow blues and jazz tunes.
It's done to shorten the note/sound of the snare drum.

.
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Why the despair and theory that if you do this you're "gonna wreck your wrists and forearms playing like that."

Why is that any more stressful than playing any other way? Heck a lotta rimshots send shockwaves up my arms. There isn't any reason physically this is damaging. No evidence.
 
Rattlin' Bones said:
Why the despair and theory that if you do this you're "gonna wreck your wrists and forearms playing like that."

Why is that any more stressful than playing any other way? Heck a lotta rimshots send shockwaves up my arms. There isn't any reason physically this is damaging. No evidence.
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while you don't death grip your sticks when letting them rebound and letting the stick take most of the vibrations, you are going to have to grip the stick a lot tighter in order to not let the stick rebound at all and transmit more vibrations through your arm, I wouldn't do that too often.
 
I'm doing it on many songs for 3-4 hour gigs. I don't grip it that much tighter. It's just fine. I play traditional, and when doing this I also turn my left hand over more, too (turn it clockwise).

It's really not much different than doing very crushed rolls, and a 2 measure crushed roll is probably more strokes than playing the two and four burying stick throughout typical 3 minute blues song.
 
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Rattlin' Bones said:
Why the despair and theory that if you do this you're "gonna wreck your wrists and forearms playing like that."

Why is that any more stressful than playing any other way? Heck a lotta rimshots send shockwaves up my arms. There isn't any reason physically this is damaging. No evidence.
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You are correct. I should not have been so positive that it WILL cause damage. Everybody's body is different. But I must say that I believe there is a good chance that playing like that on a continuous basis will probably cause damage to most people, in the long run.
How's that? Is that better? 🙂

Thanks for calling me out on this one.

.
 
Hollywood Jim said:
You are correct. I should not have been so positive that it WILL cause damage. Everybody's body is different. But I must say that I believe there is a good chance that playing like that on a continuous basis will probably cause damage to most people, in the long run.
How's that? Is that better? 🙂

Thanks for calling me out on this one.

.
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Cool, Hollywood.

I think playing crushed rolls like Buddy Rich's "whip cream rolls" is more dangerous. Heck beating on a drum during a 4 hour gig think of all the abuse your hands and arms and elbows (and legs/feet/spine) are taking. Burying the stick on snare isn't gonna amount to much.
 
I've been playing the whipped cream rolls for 40+ years - never a problem - but the disadvantage with that type of buzz roll is if you try to get a lot of volume .. like a loud crescendo roll - ya I wouldn't want to do that everyday as you could mess yourself up. For loud rolls I use clean fast double strokes and all fingers... much more effective.

re the video.. some nice playing in there! Not sure I get the 'bury the stick' thing.. if it's a rim shot sure - I live for rim shots!
But burying the stick.. not sure if it makes a big sonic difference on the snare.. can you hear it at the front of the house?
Update - I checked the THomas Lang clip - awesome - I can hear the difference in the recording.. at the beginning it does give it a nice dry attitude that fits the music... compared to later on when it opens up and he lets it bounce. Pretty cool..
I suppose some drummers 'bury the beater' and don't require ankle braces. so how hard can it be on the wrists Lol?
 
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